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Removing Gushing from the Wiki

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Aug 15th 2011 at 5:08:59 PM

So. Personal opinions on the main wiki aren't allowed, be they gushing or bashing. Now, bashing gets tolerated even less than gushing, and that makes sense; it leads to more flamewars.

But that doesn't mean we have to live with all the gushing either. This thread can serve as a center for keeping it in check. One function might be to alert people to pages that are really heavy in gushing, to the point that it's not just a quick fix and will need some assistance.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Raso Cure Candy
Cure Candy
Aug 15th 2011 at 5:14:21 PM

No way that's possible... Bashing maybe but removing being positive about something is just asking for a lot of trouble.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Aug 15th 2011 at 5:15:35 PM

If complaining is not allowed on the wiki, then gushing is not allowed either. It's in the site rules that pages should be kept neutral. Gushing can still exist in its own pages, of course, but not on the main pages.

Aug 15th 2011 at 5:15:42 PM

^^We're not supposed to gush about works on the wiki either. It's just not very well-enforced.

Ninja'd.

edited 15th Aug '11 5:16:05 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Aug 15th 2011 at 5:17:30 PM

If you want a Special Efforts thread to accomplish anything you need to have something more specific in mind than "remove gushing from the wiki". This section is for organizing special, concerted efforts, not talking about whether they should ideally be done or not.

edited 15th Aug '11 5:17:39 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
juancarlos Faith in the self.
Faith in the self.
Aug 15th 2011 at 5:17:39 PM

No way that's possible... Bashing maybe but removing being positive about something is just asking for a lot of trouble.

Positive opinions about a work can be as controversial as negative opinions about a work.

^The idea here, I think, is similar to the Troper Tales cleaning project a while back, where we report on pages and look for gushing and general positivism and neutralize it in order to create a more impartial article.

edited 15th Aug '11 5:18:44 PM by juancarlos

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
Aug 15th 2011 at 5:37:13 PM

In addition, since there has been an excess of gushing on pages that shouldn't have it, there should be a community effort to clean it up and make the wiki better.

Aug 15th 2011 at 5:38:34 PM

^^^Something more specific? Is keeping an eye out for gushing when browsing the wiki, then removing it if it's a little and posting it here if it's too much to do yourself not specific enough?

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Aug 15th 2011 at 7:00:17 PM

[up][up][up][up]I see this as being similar to the Natter Alert thread, which we do have posted here.

Aug 15th 2011 at 7:07:06 PM

It should probably be pointed out that crowner pages are...not exempt, but the rules are more lax there. Also, the difference between a positive article and gushing should mentioned. Other than that, I say pin this, and it can function like the natter alert thread.

Wait, actually, before anything happens, I'd like a mod ruling. The only official word I remember is that gushing is infinitely preferable to complaining. I don't remember any policies on gushing. I mostly agree with this, but without mod approval it just ends up looking like vandalism.

edited 15th Aug '11 7:08:37 PM by Discar

Aug 15th 2011 at 7:10:06 PM

^The way I heard it was that the wiki isn't supposed to have an opinion, but that gushing is less bad than bashing because of the lowered tendency to create flame wars.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Aug 15th 2011 at 7:56:46 PM

We don't want either one, but bashing is far more damaging, and far more contagious.

And I'm sorry about how the tone of that other post came off. I should have taken more time to compose it. If you intended this to be like the Natter Alert thread, ("<This page> is gushing, but I don't know enough about the work to fix it. Can someone who does know it, work on it?") that's fine.

edited 15th Aug '11 7:58:52 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Aug 15th 2011 at 8:01:37 PM

Make sure people understand the difference between text that makes a work look interesting and meaningless gushing.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Aug 15th 2011 at 11:56:01 PM

Interesting: this work/author likes playing with Trope X. [further examples]

Gushing: this work/author is the best at using Trope X ever.

See how the first contains a statement about amount of use a work/author makes of a trope, and the other talks about how it's "good"? That's the difference between "gushing" and "positive".

Also, my "nuke" list:

1)"How the work was received", we're not IMDB or Wikipedia, that's what they're interested in.

2) Anything that sounds like Most Triumphant Example before it got nuked.

3) "Used very well" as well as "[work] used this trope a lot" with no elaboration.

Fight smart, not fair.
SpainSun Laugh it off, everybody from Somewhere Beyond Here
Laugh it off, everybody
Aug 16th 2011 at 4:33:10 PM

Can someone with a bit more objective eyes than I have take a look at the OFWGKTA page? I'm a huge fanboy and would rather not mess the page up with gushitude.

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Aug 16th 2011 at 4:42:33 PM

Not seeing gushing. The only thing I see that could be considered gushing (if you squint and look at it just right) is saying that they have a "cult following".

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
SpainSun Laugh it off, everybody from Somewhere Beyond Here
Laugh it off, everybody
Aug 16th 2011 at 4:44:22 PM

Well, I'd consider that to be true. Even then, I didn't put it there.

Should I remove it and replace it with "sizable" or something? Even though it is currently the case, it probably won't be for long.

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Aug 16th 2011 at 5:01:00 PM

I wouldn't bother changing it. That's why I said "if you squint and look at it just right" — it could be considered gushing, if you really are looking hard for gushing in the article.

edited 16th Aug '11 5:01:20 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Lost in Space
Aug 16th 2011 at 5:01:21 PM

I see a problem where people treat a neutral or mildly positive writeup of a work as Gushing because they don't like it and think everyone else should feel the same way.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ThatHuman someone from someplace
someone
Aug 17th 2011 at 8:46:27 AM

Here's some ridiculous gushing I found in the Shantae article:

Should you happen to find a copy of the original lying around in a used game store somewhere (or on eBay, but be prepared to spend much more in that case), and you still have a Game Boy Advance lying around in working order, we recommend that you snap it up and play it immediately.

Seriously, "we recommend"? Who's "we"? TV Tropes doesn't have an opinion. Articles are not reviews. Remove that, yes?

Also, should I remove any part of a works page which says that the work Needs More Love, either with an actual link or saying that the work is "highly underrated? I found the latter in the Blassreiter article.

edited 17th Aug '11 8:47:21 AM by ThatHuman

something
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Camacan from Australiatown
Aug 17th 2011 at 9:19:32 AM

At risk of repetition: I'd urge caution when culling gushing. Gushing has a greater tendency to come intertwined with information — losing it in a snipping of paragraphs may well not be worth it. One of our goals is celebrating fiction, so a certain degree exuberant enthusiasm is to be expected.

EDIT:[down] Not saying anything specifically about that one example, more a reply to the OP.

edited 18th Aug '11 10:20:02 PM by Camacan

ThatHuman someone from someplace
someone
Aug 17th 2011 at 9:38:00 AM

[up]Yes, but the Shantae bit is just recommending people to buy a used copy of the game. Also, just removed that bit, by the way.

edited 17th Aug '11 9:41:34 AM by ThatHuman

something
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Aug 17th 2011 at 11:45:58 AM

Move Needs More Love to the YMMV tab.

edited 17th Aug '11 11:47:12 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
AndrewJ That Young Knockout Kid from Washington, DC
That Young Knockout Kid
Aug 17th 2011 at 5:48:03 PM

1)"How the work was received", we're not IMDB or Wikipedia, that's what they're interested in.

I think a brief summary of a work's critical and commercial reception is appropriate in a works description.

edited 17th Aug '11 5:48:17 PM by AndrewJ

We claim the land for the highlord, God bless the land and the hiiighlooord!

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