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Venezuela and the Chavez Legacy

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betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#301: Apr 21st 2013 at 5:58:11 AM

Done. Cheers!

The electoral commission in Venezuela has said an audit of last Sunday's disputed presidential vote will not affect Nicolas Maduro's victory. Not really a surprise, but it's nice they're being honest about it. I expect the Commission to trumpet the hell out of the audit's results if they strengthen Maduro's control, or go mysteriously quiet if they don't.

So how would one go about making the Commission properly independent in time for the next polls?

edited 21st Apr '13 5:58:59 AM by betaalpha

blackcat Since: Apr, 2009
#302: Apr 21st 2013 at 6:25:10 AM

Thread title changed per request.

daltar (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#303: Apr 30th 2013 at 9:01:14 PM

So once again there is a fight in the Parliament. The representatives of the PSUV attacked around seven opposition candidates, some say even kicking them once they were down on the ground.

According to one of the attacked representatives Maria Corina Machado, it all happened after the opposition representatives waited three hours for the session to start due to the PSUV representatives arriving late. After the first session, one of the opposition representatives asked for the right to speak, William Davila, after the which he was denied it by the leader of the assembly, Diosdado Cabello, who has not let one of the opposition the right to speak ever since Maduro's victory.

At this point, the representatives of the opposition raised a sign which said "Strike at the Parliament"... and then they were jumped upon and attacked, with several of them having to go to the hospital due to the beating they received. Diosdado Cabello has been reported to have been chuckling while it all happened.

On unrelated news, the Government keeps making "Cadenas" (Forcing all news media to interupt their broadcasts and display whatever they want them to) every single time that Capriles is speaking in public, many times not even showing new content, but instead reruns of declarations they have given before.

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#304: May 1st 2013 at 3:04:44 AM

Something suspicious about it. Does it mean the goverment is scared? They control almost every tv channel, why they need to take the Opossition and neutral channels as well for some ramdon stuff? Give the football team prizes and open a theater. Maduro is trying to make his image looks good... but with the cadenas, I hardly think that happening.

Im not talking about Diosdado and the opposition members because, to be honest, this is not the first time. That parliament has always be a violent zone.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#305: May 1st 2013 at 6:46:20 AM

[up][up]I'd a thunk that would only give Capriles even more publicity, of the Streisand Effect sort. Plus it makes Maduro seem like a coward for not daring to let the opposition speak.

Stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#306: May 1st 2013 at 2:07:18 PM

It feels just like during the campaign, Capriles keeps on making speeches and manifestations, and Maduro (and now Cabello and a bunch of others) is doing stupid crap that isn't doing them any favours.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#307: May 4th 2013 at 3:12:20 AM

More assassination allegations from Maduro. More claims of evidence that he never shows. No attempts to arrest anyone and start a trial going.

Uribe (Colombia's former president) responded in a rather lulzworthy way - he accused Maduro of being childish.

Though Uribe then called Maduro's government a dictatorship, which I think takes away some of his own credibility. Stop with the name calling, boys.

(Edited out a mistake)

edited 4th May '13 3:17:43 AM by betaalpha

Stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#308: May 4th 2013 at 4:02:06 PM

Uribe (Colombia's former president) responded in a rather lulzworthy way - he accused Maduro of being childish.
It's also punny. Ahh, Maduro and his cronies are so mockable.

Though Uribe then called Maduro's government a dictatorship, which I think takes away some of his own credibility. Stop with the name calling, boys.
Umm, yeah, it is. I say this as the guy who naïvely thought otherwise until a few weeks ago.

Anyhow, the coup at the parliament thing really made noise, the MUD is snitching around to international organizations and stuff, specially the Unasur. Perú's foreign affairs gal pretty much told him to go fuck himself. Worth a watch for whoever understands it.

Edit: I should probably rest before posting.

edited 4th May '13 4:44:56 PM by Stormtroper

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#309: May 4th 2013 at 6:36:11 PM

What makes you say it's a dicatorship now, as opposed to before?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#310: May 5th 2013 at 12:58:56 AM

Honestly? The realization that I had been way too complacent.

Regardless, in just a few weeks we've had:

  • Electoral fraud (a system that won't be audited no matter how many laws or non-governmental and international organizations say it should, and whose irregularities during the process will be rejected).
  • Demonstrations of lack of separation of powers.
  • Repression towards students.
  • Calling for violence on the opposition on public TV.
  • Political persecution of public workers. Openly so.
  • Violence at the parliament. Twice.
  • Spread of the media lockout, with the last oppository TV station just being bought out.
  • More blackmail on neutral TV stations.
  • Antonio Rivera becoming a political prisoner.
  • Whatever else I'm forgetting.

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#311: May 5th 2013 at 1:06:13 AM

I don't think Venezuela is a dictatorship and it's still quite far from being one. Granted, that's a vague term, like terrorist or torture, so different people have different 'this is a dictatorship' limits.

But Maduro and even Chavez could have gotten thrown out by an election that went sufficiently against them (if it goes down to the wire then they can fudge the results, of course). They don't have networks of informants and secret policemen who can take people away with impunity and torture or disappear them. And they don't have legally operating militias who can wipe out whole neighbourhoods.

Like Hitler comparisons, I think that if you draw the dictator cards on someone who doesn't really deserve it (yet) then you only harm your own credibility. Also it means you can't say "Chavez was turning into a dictator" because you've said he already is one and folks just think you're crying wolf. That's why I think Uribe shouldn't have done it.

stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#312: May 5th 2013 at 2:22:19 AM

I really doubt they'd have been thrown out by elections, no matter how badly they went (and with all that media, logistics and other advantages, that's difficult), the National Electoral Council would've just made something up and ignore retorts, just like they did with all the issues that have been raised so far, then we'd be where we are now. These people won't leave power through regular means.

And they do have a secret police and stuff, it's called the National Bolivarian Service of Intelligence (Sebin). All they need is a mock trial and they're set to send someone to a jail under precarious conditions, just like they did to Antonio Rivero (manager of the MUD party Popular Will, and denouncer of Cuban inference on, among other things, the Armed Forces, he was accused of inciting delinquency over a video in which he, well, doesn't). There are other examples.

Edit: Here's the video, for reference.

edited 5th May '13 3:37:54 AM by stormtroper

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#313: May 5th 2013 at 8:46:03 AM

I find the near-worship of Bolivar quite unsettling.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#314: May 5th 2013 at 8:49:28 AM

[up]

How so? To an ignorant European, furnished with a brief glance at his wikipedia page, he seems like a pretty cool guy.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#315: May 5th 2013 at 8:54:35 AM

He was. But when they are using his name in freaking institutions (Bolivarian is pretty much synonymous with "Chavez-made"), it crosses the line of admiration and into unhealthy worship. It's especially ironic since Bolivar was adamantly opposed to any systrm where a single person was indefinitely perpetuated in power.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#316: May 5th 2013 at 2:27:45 PM

[up] Like the Simón Bolívar Symphony Orchestra*

?

El Sistema is not a bad idea, though.

Keep Rolling On
RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#317: May 5th 2013 at 7:31:01 PM

A dictatorship implies that the dictator is successfully holding on to the country. The term you're looking for to describe Venezuela is "failed state", or at least it will be shortly.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#318: May 14th 2013 at 7:36:54 PM

Oh my, now the chavistas want to take over Twitter too. Since the elections, now they are in the global hashtags. Everyday.

Im the only person who see that, taking over twitter everyday is making the chavistas look like Bieber fans? And with that comparison, im saying they are making themselfs alone look like mindless idiots. The twitter of today is:

  1. Hoy MásQueNuncaChavista (Im chavista more than ever, more or less the translation)

[down]You can always check the tendecies in someone twitter account you know? just enter any person account (Barack Obama, Nostalgia critic) and look at the tendecies.

edited 14th May '13 7:52:11 PM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#319: May 14th 2013 at 7:39:53 PM

For the masochists, which tags?

(Don't have or follow twitter, but I imagine some of the people I know elsewhere might be interested.)

All your safe space are belong to Trump
daltar (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#320: May 20th 2013 at 9:04:56 PM

So, today the MUD released something their sources acquired.

An audio file from Mario Silva, host of the wildly Pro-Revolution talk show La Hojilla, giving a report to a Cuban agent about the state of the Country and the inner politics of Chavismo a few days after the elections and the death of Chavez.

This audio file, if it is the real deal which it does sound a lot like it is, brings forth quite a few insights into the inner politics of the PSUV, with two sides clearly painted, with the followers of the Revolution and Chavez' legacy headed by Maduro struggling while Diosdado Cabello holds quite a lot of authority and influence, perhaps even more than Maduro, while following a path of more clear self interest and desire for power. It is noticeable that Mario speaks with great animosity of Diosdado. It also speaks of blatant corruption, robbery, laundering of money, a desire to put an end to elections as well as the ability of the PSUV to control the result of the elections.

The file is around 50 minutes long and the content has already been transcribed into text. Mario Silva has of course, denied that the audio file is real and the government speaks of this being a fabrication of the Mossad.

Thoughts, fellow Venezuelans in the thread? And for those interested, here is the news as reported by Globovision with the transcription of the audio file. All of it in Spanish unfortunately.

betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#321: May 21st 2013 at 12:13:30 AM

I was wondering what, if anything, replaced Aló Presidente. And has Maduro broken into similar 40-hour rants? And even in Chavez' time, how come these were popular? Did people actually listen to the whole thing, or did they just admire the stamina of Chavez like he was a marathon runner? Were any officials caught playing a Gameboy during them? :)

[up]I found an English report on this. A bit brief though. Seems a bit weird for De Silva to blame Mossad for fabricating the tapes - what has Israel got to do with Venezuela? Why not blame Fox News, the Opposition or Zombie Space Dubya?

edited 21st May '13 12:22:04 AM by betaalpha

Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#322: May 21st 2013 at 3:22:11 AM

[up] Mario and a big part of the revolution is that crazy. Just don't ask.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#323: May 21st 2013 at 4:18:07 AM

[up][up]

Chavez has been criticized in the past for anti-semitic rhetoric, even (indirectly) by Fidel Castro, talking about "the same ones who crucified Christ" and selling Protocols from state-newsstands. It isn't especially surprising. How truthful is Mario likely to be being in this tape?

edited 21st May '13 4:18:25 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#324: May 21st 2013 at 6:32:31 AM

Thoughts, fellow Venezuelans in the thread?

Glad to hear it's a dog eat dog world inside the PSUV. Though I'm not sure if discrediting Cabello is a good idea, even if many others were also discredited.

I was wondering what, if anything, replaced Aló Presidente.

Reruns. Seriously.

Besides that, Maduro's been doing a "Street Government", which means doing a civic assembly somewhere throughout the country and then say whatever on TV.

Edit:

Were any officials caught playing a Gameboy during them? :)

Sort of.

edited 21st May '13 6:41:44 AM by Stormtroper

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
daltar (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#325: May 21st 2013 at 12:18:23 PM

I do think that at least, the tapes are true and that Mario Silva did report what he knows or thinks is happening within the PSUV.

As for how likely it is that the information is true... Well... I'd say that yesterday, while Mario Silva said that the tapes were fake he felt... different. A bit of fear showing behind the bravado. And as a matter of great coincidence, he declared yesterday that he will be taking a rest from hosting La Hojilla due to 'medical reasons'


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