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Reasons why we think Troper Tales should be removed

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juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#3126: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:19:08 AM

So if tropes get misused, we should remove them altogether rather than cleaning them up. Gotcha.

How many times must I say this?

We have tried cleaning them up thrice. We have done this whole "TT is bad. Let's try to fix it!" thing three times already.

Why is it worthwhile to do it again? why is Troper Tales so important that we need to keep it? Because really, I don't see it.

Why does Troper Tales merit three attempts at cleaning up when many, many, many other things have not merited such attention and instead just gotten deletion with less strikes?

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
FarseerLolotea from America's Finest City Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#3127: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:20:39 AM

What persecution card?

I said that I'm in the minority of not wanting to see it axed. That's not "persecution," that's a simple fact that's easy enough to verify.

I said that I see this as throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I do not feel "persecuted;" I merely disagree that there is no baby. Simple as that.

[up]Because people are offering to do the dirty work this time.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:21:38 AM by FarseerLolotea

tehnubkilr Wiki Cleaner Award gratefully accepted from Hic et ubique Since: Oct, 2010
Wiki Cleaner Award gratefully accepted
#3128: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:21:14 AM

[up][up][up]Forgive my going off-topic for a split second, but why is Candle Cove on the sugar wiki?

Returning back to the main issue, we've given Troper Tales more than its share of effort to make it better, but have failed each time. We have failed not because of a lack of effort, but because of troper's insistence on violating guidelines. I find myself on the same train of thought as juan: I cannot see why we need to keep the troper tales.

[up][up]What about the troper tales is worth keeping? Watching tropers talk about how tragic, awesome or disturbing their lives and/or minds are?

edited 14th Aug '11 11:22:19 AM by tehnubkilr

I'm the editor TVTropes needs but does not deserve.
FarseerLolotea from America's Finest City Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#3129: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:22:41 AM

Again: how many times have people actively offered to clean it up?

To keep it polite: it comes back to the notability thing. Not cutting examples just because they're not well-known.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:24:31 AM by FarseerLolotea

mahel042 State-sponsored username from Stockholm,Sweden Since: Dec, 2009
State-sponsored username
#3130: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:23:40 AM

"Because people are offering to do the dirty work this time."

Didn't they do that the last time as well? unfortunately either it wasn't enough or they didn't do what they said they would.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:23:55 AM by mahel042

In the quiet of the night, the Neocount of Merentha mused: How long does evolution take, among the damned?
juancarlos Faith in the self. Since: Mar, 2012
Faith in the self.
#3131: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:24:58 AM

Because people are offering to do the dirty work this time.

The second clean up project was completely voluntary.

Not only that, but the fact of the matter is, that they're doing this now that it is gonna go away. Now it is when they beg and say they'll do anything to keep their lulzes and fun. But they didn't say anything when there were issues and they could fix them.

What makes me believe that even a third of the people who want TT to stay would follow on their promises of reporting the problems at hand and the like?

Not many.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:25:42 AM by juancarlos

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.
tehnubkilr Wiki Cleaner Award gratefully accepted from Hic et ubique Since: Oct, 2010
Wiki Cleaner Award gratefully accepted
#3132: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:25:10 AM

[up][up][up]More times than was reasonable. We're offering up the deletion of Troper Tales knowing full well that past efforts to maintain it have failed. As to the scale of the project, one would need to devote their entire being to the task, putting it ahead of family, academics, careers, etc. I just don't see that as being a reasonable thing to ask of the tropers.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:25:25 AM by tehnubkilr

I'm the editor TVTropes needs but does not deserve.
FarseerLolotea from America's Finest City Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#3133: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:25:21 AM

But it's currently scarcely being used at all. The big drive seems to be salvaging the archives.

As I said on the other thread: hell, I'd personally moderate it, if that's what it took. Not because I particularly want that responsibility, but because taking it on seems preferable to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:27:10 AM by FarseerLolotea

tehnubkilr Wiki Cleaner Award gratefully accepted from Hic et ubique Since: Oct, 2010
Wiki Cleaner Award gratefully accepted
#3134: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:26:02 AM

[up]The archives contain even more stuff that we would rather see removed. With the new system, at least it was possible to report stuff more easily, and trace the original author. In the archives, it's a mess.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:27:00 AM by tehnubkilr

I'm the editor TVTropes needs but does not deserve.
FarseerLolotea from America's Finest City Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#3135: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:27:55 AM

And the archives are just that—archives. They're no longer relevant.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:28:06 AM by FarseerLolotea

tehnubkilr Wiki Cleaner Award gratefully accepted from Hic et ubique Since: Oct, 2010
Wiki Cleaner Award gratefully accepted
#3136: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:30:28 AM

[up]They nonetheless are a burden and a reminder of the abuses that the Troper Tales are subjected to. In fact, if they're not relevant, that's another (excellent) reason to remove the Troper tales.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:34:58 AM by tehnubkilr

I'm the editor TVTropes needs but does not deserve.
Smilingcloud Since: Jul, 2011
#3137: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:35:56 AM

In this thread, there have been examples, recent from what I can tell, of Bad examples of Troper Tales, examples that weren't flagged until this thread started and Anti-TT needed the proof necessary to spell out that TT isn't self-policing itself.

TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#3138: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:43:56 AM

Because people are offering to do the dirty work this time.

Pop quiz: What is the only decision in the history of this site that a was decreed to require a 1 : 3.5 (one to three and a half) hypermajority to go through?

Answer: removing a troper tale during the next-to-last clean-up attempt, because people pulled the "oh, we are volunteering to curate it" card.

So, people were offering to do the dirty work before, and this resulted in specific TT pages getting off the hook despite overwhelming consensus to do away with them. Such as So Beautiful, It's A Curse (had a 1 : 3.43 consensus to axe it- almost there!) and Deadpan Snarker (only 1 : 2.91 - not nearly decisive enough).

edited 14th Aug '11 11:45:10 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
Neo_Crimson Your army sucks. from behind your lines. Since: Jan, 2001
Your army sucks.
#3139: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:44:21 AM

[up][up]For example, here, here and here.

I will post the others as I find them. If anyone can also do so, that would be much appreciated.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:44:56 AM by Neo_Crimson

Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!
ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#3140: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:47:16 AM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
NateTheGreat Since: Jan, 2001
#3141: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:50:33 AM

Okay, we need some official declarations:

  • 1. Has Troper Tales been determined to be a plague on the wiki that must go away, no matter which trope they're linked to or who volunteers to nursemaid them?
  • 2. Is there a better way to transfer all the archived tales to the T.T. wiki than laborious copy-and-paste of each individual page?
  • 3. Is it utterly impossible to simply put T.T. behind some sort of wall that can only be breached by Known Tropers who have passed some sort of warning/regulation screen?

edited 14th Aug '11 11:51:02 AM by NateTheGreat

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#3142: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:51:20 AM

Please do not start posting the results of trawling for examples again. All that proves is that there are bad examples.

SpainSun Laugh it off, everybody from Somewhere Beyond Here Since: Jan, 2010
Laugh it off, everybody
#3143: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:52:52 AM

Okay, I have decided that the arguments of the pro-Cutting side would perhaps be more effective if presented in a meme format.

On a related note, the following is sponsored by the Old Spice Corporation.

Hello, Tropers.
Look at your tales, now back to me, now back to your tales, now back to me.
Sadly, they are not relevant, but if you moved them to another website, they could be.
Look down at your keyboard, now back up at your screen. Where are you?
You're on Wikia, with an entire website to do whatever you want with.
What's that you're implementing? Back to me. Now I am implementing it.
It's a brand new Troper Tales system.
Now look again, the new system is now the old system.
Everything is possible if you just switch to Wikia and not use Tvtropes.
I am on a forum.

edited 14th Aug '11 11:57:10 AM by SpainSun

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....
Loid from Eastern Standard Time Since: Jun, 2011
#3144: Aug 14th 2011 at 11:58:56 AM

@Spain

No, stop that.

"Dr. Strangeloid, or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Cleanlink" - thespacephantom
TripleElation Diagonalizing The Matrix from Haifa, Isarel Since: Jan, 2001
Diagonalizing The Matrix
#3145: Aug 14th 2011 at 12:03:23 PM

Is it utterly impossible to simply put T.T. behind some sort of wall that can only be breached by Known Tropers who have passed some sort of warning/regulation screen?

I should be careful of trying to speak for everyone, but I believe this is not what the "we want it gone" people want.

The vibe I get is that we do not merely want it hidden away, put behind a wall or swept under a rug. We want it gone from this site. We want to disavow it, and the "enough about the trope, let's talk about me" attitude that is inherent to it.

Previously I was fully on board with the "get rid of the really bad ones, save the rest" program. Troper Tales seems like a legitimate way to illustrate tropes and a very good idea on paper. Outside of paper, we have found out that it brings out the worst in our user base, and maybe even brings in the worst to our user base. The stuff that comes out of it is off the site mission by miles and gives us a reputation of self-aggrandizing creeps. Whatever the benefits of having it on this specific site are, they are outweighed by the costs a dozen times over.

I'm sure that there are a lot of people who really have been using Troper Tales as a platform to entertain readers and illustrate tropes, and this must immensely suck for them.

edited 14th Aug '11 12:12:54 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to
ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#3146: Aug 14th 2011 at 12:03:44 PM

Permission to repost Bobby G's reasons to remove TT.

SpainSun Laugh it off, everybody from Somewhere Beyond Here Since: Jan, 2010
Laugh it off, everybody
#3147: Aug 14th 2011 at 12:05:09 PM

Okay, well that attempt at lightening the mood failed miserably.

oh well.

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#3148: Aug 14th 2011 at 12:16:02 PM

But maddy, it proves that most of the examples are bad, and proves that efforts to clean up Troper Tales haven't been very effective. That's why we're bringing it up.

edited 14th Aug '11 12:16:21 PM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
Myrmidon The Ant King from In Antartica Since: Nov, 2009
The Ant King
#3149: Aug 14th 2011 at 12:16:17 PM

Please do not start posting the results of trawling for examples again. All that proves is that there are bad examples.
So we aren't allowed to provide proof of our statements when people are asking for them?

Kill all math nerds
ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#3150: Aug 14th 2011 at 12:16:55 PM

Their mere existence proves that the new system does not prevent bad entries from being written, nor does it mean all of them will be flagged.

SingleProposition: TroperTalesRedux
7th Aug '11 8:35:49 PM

Crown Description:

Should Troper Tales be removed? Vote down for no, up for yes.

Total posts: 3,165
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