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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24776: Jan 9th 2015 at 8:25:19 AM

I could see a Baccano and Agent Carter crossover working- perhaps Peggy could be taking a trip on The Flying Pussyfoot, sharing a car with Chane and end up being wrapped up in a Hydra homunuculs plot. Could introduce Lord Ludox and besides it's not like Marvel necessarily shies away from gore.

Back to CGI vs practical effects. Practical effects tend, imo, still tend to seem more realistic since they are. It's much easier to believe any gunshot or explosion in Indiana Jones than the helicopter scene in Die Hard since they actually were using live weaponry.

It's like 3D movies. Can be good, but usually overused.

edited 9th Jan '15 8:29:19 AM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#24777: Jan 9th 2015 at 8:31:13 AM

CGI humans never look right....same for motion capture. It only works if you change the appearance of whoever you are filming, like they did with Gollum. You can get away with it for a short inbetween shot, but the better solution is to film an actual human and then put him into the situation you want him - provided that you can make the movements fit.

edited 9th Jan '15 8:32:11 AM by Swanpride

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#24778: Jan 9th 2015 at 8:36:16 AM

[up]x4 What about "Groot roots up the nose?"

edited 9th Jan '15 8:37:00 AM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#24779: Jan 9th 2015 at 8:38:26 AM

The guy was still alive after that and he could always get reconstructive surgery.

At least until Ronan showed up and had the whole place blown to hell.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
lackofsense Since: Jan, 2013
#24780: Jan 9th 2015 at 8:42:19 AM

What about the guy who shredded by a propeller at the end on Captain America?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24781: Jan 9th 2015 at 9:20:02 AM

An interesting theory I saw is what if they have Hope become the MCU Wasp by giving her a modified version of the Yellowjacket suit, since it can apparnetly fly and has stingers?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24782: Jan 9th 2015 at 9:20:50 AM

Marvel's got plenty of villains guilty of things as horrific as "grinding folk against railroad tracks". You want gory? We got Carnage. How about serial rapists? Purple Man's always up for that. We got sadists and Nazis and horrors aplenty. You want the Devil? We got SEVEN.

Most haven't gotten to really strut their stuff in the MCU, however. As noted, there's a light-hearted tone that the MCU is going for, and dripping torsos dangling from meat hooks doesn't really jibe with that.

edited 9th Jan '15 9:21:43 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#24783: Jan 9th 2015 at 9:22:57 AM

CGI humans never look right....same for motion capture. It only works if you change the appearance of whoever you are filming, like they did with Gollum.

Technology keeps getting better, though. Not many people realize that Tony Stark in the final scene of Iron Man 3 was CGI.

edited 9th Jan '15 9:24:32 AM by Tuckerscreator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24784: Jan 9th 2015 at 9:29:48 AM

[up][up]And honestly I'm fine with that. Except in very few well handled instances (like the above mentioned purple man) most of the instances of extreme violence or gore or rape in comics tend to be immature shock tactics by insecure writers who want to make sure their comic book about dudes in bright spandex isn't for children. It's become a crutch.

LizardBite Shameless Self-Promoter from Two Galaxies Over Since: Jan, 2001
#24785: Jan 9th 2015 at 9:41:17 AM

"Marvel's got plenty of villains guilty of things as horrific as "grinding folk against railroad tracks". You want gory? We got Carnage. How about serial rapists? Purple Man's always up for that. We got sadists and Nazis and horrors aplenty. You want the Devil? We got SEVEN.

Most haven't gotten to really strut their stuff in the MCU, however. As noted, there's a light-hearted tone that the MCU is going for, and dripping torsos dangling from meat hooks doesn't really jibe with that. "

That's my point. Note I was talking about MCU, not Marvel in general. The MCU keeps things PG-13. The level of violence in Baccano would earn it an R rating if it were an American Live Action Film.

If we were talking about the comic universe, then Baccano would almost seem quaint compared to some of the stuff that's happened in Marvel. tongue

EDIT: Is the quoteblock feature broken or is it just me?

edited 9th Jan '15 9:42:56 AM by LizardBite

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#24786: Jan 9th 2015 at 9:46:03 AM

The goriest MCU scene.

edited 9th Jan '15 9:46:40 AM by Tuckerscreator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24787: Jan 9th 2015 at 9:52:39 AM

[up][up] Not just you, quoteblock is currently broken. They mentioned over in the bugs thread that in the new website format, the quoteblock is still coded to trigger a special text condition, but that text condition itself is missing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24788: Jan 9th 2015 at 10:11:47 AM

Clearly its a conspiracy to get rid of quoting for inexplicable reasons.

Doo da doo doo doo da doo dooooo

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#24789: Jan 9th 2015 at 10:35:11 AM

Tintin was all motion-capture humans and it looked pretty incredible.

edited 9th Jan '15 10:35:20 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#24790: Jan 9th 2015 at 10:45:59 AM

Tintin mostly worked because for one, the faces of the actors were changed with the computer so they looked more comic style, which did a lot to prevent the uncanney valley effect, and two the scenes were actually done with all actors present and a lot of props. This way they prevented the "dead eyes" effect and made the movements more realistic.

Creating a fake Ironman is easy because it is basically a flying puppet. There is a reason why Pixar picked Toy Story as first movie, it is way easier to create toys (or robots) than humans. In nearly 20 years, they naturally perfected the technology for that.

I think a good example for the right use of CGI is comparing Gwarp of Oot P with the Giants from the eight Harry Potter movie...the latter look better but not just because of the time inbetween, but also because the former was pure CGI why the latter were actors who were copied into the movie later on, with some enhancements for their faces for the giant look. Because of this, the movements look way more natural.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#24791: Jan 9th 2015 at 12:17:52 PM

"An interesting theory I saw is what if they have Hope become the MCU Wasp by giving her a modified version of the Yellowjacket suit, since it can apparnetly fly and has stingers?"

I actually think it will be a case of Hope literally putting on the Yellowjacket suit or perhaps a an earlier version of Yellowjacket's suit that Yellowjacket himself is no longer using (or alternatively, a more advanced version that he hasn't had the chance to put on before Hope nabs it). The color scheme is right, and if it can fly and has stingers then that's all we need to have an MCU Wasp with the full powerset. True we don't have Janet, but with Hope being her daughter that's probably the next best thing.

My guess is that if Marvel goes that route we'll probably only see Hope become the Wasp during the climax of the movie.

edited 9th Jan '15 12:21:14 PM by Falrinn

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24792: Jan 9th 2015 at 1:49:22 PM

The Stinger: Hope becomes the Wasp and uses her stingers.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24794: Jan 9th 2015 at 2:01:16 PM

Well, that's a good sign.

I admit, I've been a bit worried about this film, but that's hopeful.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#24795: Jan 9th 2015 at 2:09:18 PM

I'd like to believe a lot of that is just because Agent Carter was so good.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#24796: Jan 9th 2015 at 3:05:07 PM

I could see a Baccano! and Agent Carter crossover working- perhaps Peggy could be taking a trip on The Flying Pussyfoot, sharing a car with Chane and end up being wrapped up in a Hydra homunuculs plot. Could introduce Lord Ludox and besides it's not like Marvel necessarily shies away from gore.

Not a bad idea, but the Flying Pussyfoot arc takes place about 15 years before Agent Carter. I don't have any idea what the cast of Baccano! was doing during the 40's, though. I actually don't think (from what little I know about the light novels), that that period has been covered at all.

As for the gore, that can be toned down if you really wanted it to be. We don't need Claire to grind people against the railroad tracks, and immortality could probably be demonstrated in less graphic ways. Of course, nothing's stopping us from bringing in the gore anyway...

edited 9th Jan '15 8:48:35 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#24798: Jan 9th 2015 at 9:15:13 PM

So Civil War will be globe-spanning eh? Interesting.

So how would you guys rank the MCU films from least to most favorite in your opinions and why? For me, it goes:

Iron Man 2: Feels too much like a trailer for Avengers than a good movie on its own, and is really evident that Marvel was still learning how to work these films together without said problem in the beginning. That, and it had a rather lame villain, and not enough Iron Man action.

Thor: The Dark World: Really, this one was just far too forgettable, mainly due to probably the weakest villain in the MCU, and too much focus on comic-relief sidekicks and shilling the character of Loki. Still had a creative final fight though.

Iron Man 3: All issues with the Mandarin aside (didn't really mind them that much), again, this one was just sort of forgettable. Nothing really interesting happened in it imo.

The Incredible Hulk: Quite an underrated film as far as I'm concerned, and the fights between Hulk and Abomination were some of the best in this universe. Plus, it also felt much more like the TV show than the 2003 film. Not sure why many, including Marvel themselves, tend to treat this one as Fanon Discontinuity, unless it is due to the fact that it's a bit shallow.

Thor: Really felt like a modern-day Shakespearean epic, probably due to director Kenneth Branaugh, and I am all the more thankful for it. It gave the MCU both Loki and Hawkeye, and is overall a really fun film with good human drama.

Iron Man: Still the best of the Iron Man trilogy, and one of the highest rated Marvel films period for a good reason. It had just the right blend of realism and fantastical elements, RDJ gave one of his best performances, and the effects were outstanding. Still holds its own against many of the others even after all these years.

Captain America: The First Avenger: One of the more old-school style of films, and is awesome thanks to it. Steve Rogers is the most likable protagonist in the MCU, and this film proved it. Really, the whole film just oozes confidence and charm from the very get-go, and that's not even mentioning the fact that 90% of its effects are practical.

The Avengers. Up until 2014, this was my favorite film of the MCU. Pretty much the culmination of decades of superhero films, and with sharp writing, an ensemble cast, amazing action sequences, and a great sense of humor, there's a good reason as to why it's the third highest grossing film of all time. What an excellent film.

Guardians of the Galaxy: Leave it to Marvel and James Gunn to take a relatively obscure series and make it one of the most popular films of the year. Really, every character, setpiece, and plot point is done with such energy and wit that I can't really think of too many things to complain about. Plus, it launched Chris Pratt into superstardom, gave us one of the best performances by Vin Diesel, and includes Rocket, one of MCU's greatest characters.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier: The one that I personally consider to be the Magnum Opus of this universe (despite what naysayers like CS say). With the best fight choreography this side of The Raid films, a chilling tale of spy espionage and government conspiracies, a great character arc for the titular hero, one of the best villains in all of comic book movies, an excellent score, and just overall well-done craftsmanship, I can't praise this film enough. One of the few films I would give a perfect 10/10 to.

How about you guys?

edited 9th Jan '15 9:16:20 PM by LDragon2

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#24799: Jan 9th 2015 at 10:11:46 PM

Outstanding movies: The Winter Soldier, Got G and The Avengers for different reasons.

Good Movies: Iron Man and The First Avenger - I think both movies have the same "problem" so to speak, they have a really strong origin story but then a rushed finale.

Fun but problematic movies: Iron Man 2 and 3 and the Thor movies...for different reasons.

I think "The Incredible Hulk" is above all incredible boring and miscast.

If I had to pick a "best movie" I would currently say that The Winter Soldier is objectively the best movie, but the one I would watch more often is Got G.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#24800: Jan 9th 2015 at 10:35:02 PM

[up][up]You don't need to mention Cinema Sins in the same breath as Cap 2 every time.


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