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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#24751: Jan 8th 2015 at 9:18:26 AM

Sitwell appeared in Thor, actually.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#24752: Jan 8th 2015 at 9:22:10 AM

Because it wasn't important that Sitwell was Sitwell, it was important that he was a ranking SHIELD Agent that was part of HYDRA. You don't need to have watched the short or seen Ao S to know that Sitwell is a SHIELD agent. That's literally all you need to know about him, and they tell you that in the film.

GeekCodeRed Since: Sep, 2010
#24753: Jan 8th 2015 at 9:31:42 AM

Hell, Sitwell is in Avengers. As far as the average cinema goer knows, this is a minor character who keeps appearing in limited roles, and this was A Death in the Limelight.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24754: Jan 8th 2015 at 10:21:11 AM

Spin offs of supporting characters in the films. For instance, a Black Widow movie that was supposedly in talks but has since been shelved comes to mind

Feige had said they wanted to keep a select few characters in the Avengers movies rather than giving them spin-offs so I imagine that's part of the reason.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#24755: Jan 8th 2015 at 10:30:32 AM

Surely not just the Avengers movies, if Black Widow can play a major role in the Winter Soldier.

Oh God! Natural light!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24756: Jan 8th 2015 at 10:36:58 AM

I imagine he meant ensemble stuff in general since Hawkeye was also planned to have a role in Winter Soldier.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#24758: Jan 8th 2015 at 11:50:19 AM

[up] Hm...I like the stuff about Scott Lang and Yellowjacket, but...

The duo's attempt to steal his suit will be complicated somewhat by the precense of Hope. "She’s not been in her father’s life for a long time," Lilly says. "So her arc in the movie—as Scott’s is with his daughter—is trying to find a relationship."

Not sure how I feel about this. That said, if I had to judge by this article and what little we've seen from the trailers, then I think we can count on her having a prominent role. And if it mirrors Scott's arc then we're probably good there as well.

Oh God! Natural light!
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#24759: Jan 8th 2015 at 11:53:44 AM

[up]At least her major role isn't finding a romantic relationship.

Kinda wish they were using Janet instead of Hank, because I literally cannot remember a single superhero movie with a mother/daughter relationship being the crux, but I guess when both the mentor and the new guy have to have the word "Man" in their superhero names there's only so much you can do.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24760: Jan 8th 2015 at 11:57:08 AM

Watchman kinda.... ish....

subplot

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#24762: Jan 8th 2015 at 1:15:05 PM

Hey. The book was... Decent.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24763: Jan 8th 2015 at 1:19:27 PM

I liked parts of the movie.

The times they are a-changin' bit mostly.

About the worst thing I can say is that I don't really remember the movie - or I can't really remember if I'm remembering the book or the movie and I've never really felt the need to go back and rewatch it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24764: Jan 8th 2015 at 1:21:51 PM

The article makes practical effects sound like a bad thing.

Disagree.

edited 8th Jan '15 1:22:14 PM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#24765: Jan 8th 2015 at 1:25:20 PM

That's becuase in many ways practical effects are just as good if not better. Because if it is real, it'll look and feel more real for both the actor and the audience.

The Blog The Art
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24767: Jan 8th 2015 at 1:31:12 PM

To an extent. Practical effects are better for things that can actually exist in our world, such as scenery, explosions, etc.

That being said, CGI is just better at depicting the impossible. I don't care how good you make your rubber suit dragon, it is still a rubber suit, not a dragon. The rubber suit looks plenty real, but that's a problem because it's supposed to look like a dragon.

edited 8th Jan '15 1:31:52 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#24768: Jan 8th 2015 at 1:31:59 PM

They have their advantages and disadvantages. it's jsut sometimes it feels a little too obvious when I'm looking at a cartoon sometimes so I feel a mite jaded towards CGI on occasion.

And Mostly ninja'd by the Drake who put exactly what I was thinking into words.

edited 8th Jan '15 1:32:55 PM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#24769: Jan 8th 2015 at 1:36:49 PM

Sitwell's betrayal really didn't sit well with me.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#24771: Jan 8th 2015 at 4:30:13 PM

Wow, they're actually using ant sized sets for Ant-man? That's bloody marvellous. If you guys are asking for practical effects, you can't get any more practical than that.

Saying that; I get the sense that people mean something different from me when they resort to the term CGI; I picture a being made entirely within a computer, using live actors only as a reference point; you know, like Azog in the Hobbit. But then people refer to legolas dancing on Dwarf heads in barrels as being CGI and I can't help but think 'No, you're legitimately looking at Orland Bloom dancing and you're legitimately looking at Graham Mc Tavish in a barrel, the only trickery is that they took two events which happened in different locations at different times and allowed you to see them both at once. Sure it's literally a Computer Generated Image, but all editing is done digitally these decades. Every image in every recent major movie not made by Wes Anderson is a computer generated image.

Generally people consider models to be a practical effect; showing a live action Paul Rudd super imposed into a live action hyper focused carpet isn't functionally different from showing an A-Wing model super imposed over a live action tundra.

(Sorry for going off track with my exmple, I just have a hard on for the fact Peter Jacson filmed thirteen actors in barrels in a lake, and then built an automated green screen set so Orland Bloom could dance on articulated green screen limbs set to match the movement of dwarven bald caps.)

Don't get me wrong I expect to see tonnes of CGI in Ant-man. CGI ants, CGI men, CGI Men-Ants. I'm just blown away that they're ballsy enough to take the central concept of the original Ant-Man story (That the common world is monstrous and terrifying on a minute level) and attempt to portray that literally rather than cooking it up in a rendering engine.

I'm definitely going to have to see this in 3D.

edited 8th Jan '15 4:36:04 PM by Whowho

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#24772: Jan 8th 2015 at 9:15:01 PM

I have no objections against CGI in itself...the problem with CGI is that wrongly used, it creates an uncanny valley effect, and the effects tend to age very, very fast. But it can enhance the experience. If there is the right combination of real and CGI, then the result is perfect.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#24773: Jan 8th 2015 at 10:51:22 PM

To an extent. Practical effects are better for things that can actually exist in our world, such as scenery, explosions, etc.

That being said, CGI is just better at depicting the impossible. I don't care how good you make your rubber suit dragon, it is still a rubber suit, not a dragon. The rubber suit looks plenty real, but that's a problem because it's supposed to look like a dragon.

I was going to post something to this effect earlier, but it wouldn't go through. Oh well.

Anyway, I just watched the Agent Carter premiere. Loved it. Easily superior the Agents of SHIELD pilot, in my humble opinion. I'd have to say it has to do with the focus being on a character we already care a great deal about (Coulson's popularity aside, his brief appearances don't really have much of arc...unless someone's noticed something that I missed?) Of course, it might also have to do for my love of Period Pieces, especially those taking place in the time period depicted here. It's probably similar to the reason (or at least one of many) for my recent enthusiasm towards Baccano, although that's set during the early 1930's.

...Actually, that'd be a neat crossover. I mean, it takes place in New York, and 15 years wouldn't really age the cast that much - most of them are fairly young, and several of them don't age at all. It has it's share of outlandishness, to be sure, but so does the MCU. Of course, whether the two would match tonally is a different story, and most, if not all of the cast are one the opposite side of the law of Peggy Carter, but's that's arguably part of the fun (and let's face it, Peggy's breaking several laws at the moment).

edited 8th Jan '15 10:55:11 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
LizardBite Shameless Self-Promoter from Two Galaxies Over Since: Jan, 2001
#24774: Jan 9th 2015 at 7:37:41 AM

[up] Tone really isn't the issue with that crossover— Baccano has an intense energy and a just plain fun atmosphere. The issue is more to do with content. Baccano is a bit too bloody and gory for the MCU, I think. To my knowledge, nobody in the MCU has suffered a fate as grisly as "death by being ground against railroad tracks".

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24775: Jan 9th 2015 at 8:19:25 AM

CGI and practical effects both have their own advantages and flaws. I think the Winter Soldier for instance benefited from the use of as much practicality as possible and the Russos said that was something they were going for because they didn't want too much of it to be obviously fake.

I think that's a risk you run in with human characters. You've still got the uncanny valley effect so unless you get the shots just right you risk having people notice that your "hero" is a creepy looking CGI mannequin.


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