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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#24501: Jan 2nd 2015 at 11:17:23 AM

I too view Iron Man 1 as the better film compared to Thor 1 and Captain America: The First Avenger.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#24502: Jan 2nd 2015 at 11:33:20 AM

On the whole, Cap definitely has the best solo films, though. Then Iron Man.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24503: Jan 2nd 2015 at 11:48:01 AM

[up][up]Yeah. I like Thor 1 and Cap 1 but neither one comes close. Iron Man just works perfectly as a self-contained movie AND an introduction to a broader universe, while I feel the latter two kind of coast off the MCU connection to a degree.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#24504: Jan 2nd 2015 at 12:05:59 PM

Captain America's only real connection to the res of the MCU is the Tesseract stuff, and the ending. Even with those, it works perfectly well on its own.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
MiscellaneousSoup (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#24505: Jan 2nd 2015 at 12:16:46 PM

I can't stop reading this thread. I'm going to have to turn my spoilers off. So, I saw the trailer. I bet that people are enlarging the images already.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#24506: Jan 2nd 2015 at 12:43:06 PM

.... of course Marvel would release an "Ant-sized" trailer for Ant-Man. OF COURSE. [lol]

Amazing.

swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#24507: Jan 2nd 2015 at 1:05:09 PM

The thing is when it watched Iron Man, I thought it was an okay movie. Really solid, but to me, the pacing was slightly off, and I felt that they could have made more with Raz and with the connection between Tony and Stane. I mean the whole thing was a giant betrayal, but the fact is never really adressed in the movie, nor in any of the sequels. I also felt that the character change of Tony wasn't really a character change and more a matter of seeing the truth. The Tony before Afghanistan wasn't okay with selling weapons under his hand either. He wouldn't have been okay with his weapons being used by terrorists. It is less that he decides that his "who holds the biggest stick brings peace" is wrong and more that he decides "I can't trust anyone with the stick, so I better hold it myself".

With Captain America though, I was blown away how well they handled the difficult topic. How they managed to cut the character Captain America from the propaganda machinery so that Captain America no longer is the Superhero which stands for the great and allmighty America, but what America should be, the ideals it once tried to reach but never did. And I can totally get behind that. I think those a great ideals. At the same time, Steve become more than just a personification of those ideals, he became a character who constantly struggles against a world, in which those ideals are more or less forgotten.

So not only can I root fully for Captain America (and I am talking about a character I positively hated for his overblown patriotism beforehand), he also has a complexity I consider very relatable.

I can inderstand though, why some people might feel more attached to the Iron Man movie. But if I look at the two franchises, the Captain America one is definitly the stronger - even if they ruin the third movie. Because the first movie is so different from the second one, but both feel like they fit together perfectly. While with the Iron Man movies, it feels a little bit like they did the same movie three times. Each time Tony struggles with emotional problems, with his abilities to form relationship, encounters a villain with whom he has some sort of personal connection related to his past and everytime he updates the suit so that he can use the newest model just in time to rescue everyone. Wtih Captain America the first one is a period piece and war movie about a man dedicated to do his part in the war until he becomes a tragic hero, while the second one is a political thriller about a soldier who is tired of war and has trouble to adjust to his new life.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24508: Jan 2nd 2015 at 1:07:45 PM

[up][up]It's rather brilliant. From what I hear someone's already blown it up though.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#24509: Jan 2nd 2015 at 1:21:15 PM

So here's a thought about how the Cap movies and Avengers movie were written: It speaks both as a positive to the writing of the Cap movies, but a negative on Avengers, that there was little character change or development beyond Iron Man at the end. One could watch the two Cap films back to back, and skip Avengers, and couldn't they not miss anything?The only thing you miss is that you don't see anything about the other Supers. Even Black Widow gets enough of a reintroduction in Cap 2's opening that you don't need to know what she's like in Iron Man 2 or Avengers.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24510: Jan 2nd 2015 at 1:23:55 PM

Steve didn't have much of a personality in The Avengers. I actually count it a bit as Early-Installment Weirdness because they didn't seem to have his characterization or fighting style down until Winter Soldier.

I chalk that up to the movie being written before First Avenger was out.

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#24511: Jan 2nd 2015 at 1:34:06 PM

I chalk it up to Steve bein fresh out of the freezer in Avengers and keeping quiet because nothing but the flying monkeys is making sense to him.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#24512: Jan 2nd 2015 at 2:26:26 PM

...I understood that reference.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#24513: Jan 2nd 2015 at 3:01:44 PM

Lord of Lore's list of future villains he wants to see in the MCU:

  • Thor
    • Enchantress: Has worked with Loki before(at one point while he ruled Asgard). If we are lucky she might get Thor to forget Jane.
    • Cul: Look, I really want to see a big snake fight Thor.
    • Hela: Anti-villain with great interactions with Loki, Thor and pretty much all other Asgardians.
    • The Disir:-is cut into a million pieces before the words can leave my mouth-

  • Iron Man
    • Recorder 451: Remove the "secret origin" of Tony and you have a good cosmic based threat that Tony could probably defeat without the other Avengers.
    • Lancelot: Tony has the best suit, she is the best pilot. If there ever was a real Armor War in the MCU Alexandra would be my pick as the rival who switches sides in the last act to help defeat the evil Roxxon/A.I.M/The Circle/Other evil companies and persons who would take part in such a event.
    • Count Nefaria: Look, I really want Madame Masque.

  • Hawkeye
    • Only has a contract for the next two Avengers movies so I'm not going to bother with him.

  • Black Widow
    • No solo movie so I'll wait on her.

  • Hulk
    • No solo movie but I would enjoy seeing Hulk fight Red Hulk or the Leader if he ever got another movie.

  • Captain America
    • Probably dying before Cap 4 so I'll just put down M.O.D.O.K as a villain I want to see later after Bucky takes over.

  • Guardians of the Galaxy
    • Adam Magus: Look, we know they are bringing in Warlock. Bring in the Universal Church of Truth and you have a source of mooks that the weaker Guardians can fight while Peter/Gamora deal with Magus.
    • The Supreme Intelligence of the Kree: The Kree need a good man behind the man and the SI can easily be adapted into the real power on Hala.
    • Lord Mar-Vell: Might as well go full stop and make Mar-Vell a villain seeking eternal life after finding out he has space!cancer. Have his daughter oppose him and you have a good reason to add Phyla to the team.

  • Doctor Strange
    • Mephisto: Yo. Best demon lord.
    • The Fear Lords: Adapt the Journey Into Mystery arc with them but replace Kid!Loki with Strange or I don't know. I like them and would like to see what the MCU can do with one or more of them.
    • Umar: Probably Strange's best female villain.

  • Black Panther
    • All the good ones have already been stated.

  • Ant-Man
    • Doom! No wait.
    • Ultron! No wait.
    • His own personal demons!(look, Lang/Pym doesn't have that many good personal villains)

  • Captain Marvel
    • Yon-Rogg: Kree, friend of Ronan, the one who ended up giving Carol her powers, her first major enemy after becoming Captain Marvel...This guy has a lot of things that make him a good starter villain for Carol.
    • Moonstone: Good power set and a typical "same power as the hero but evil" villain like Iron Monger, Red Skull, Loki and Abomination. Helps that she is connected to the Kree.
    • The Brood belongs to Fox, right? Maybe J'son without the connection to Peter?

  • Avengers
    • Immortus/Kang the Conqueror: If you are only going to do 1 time travel movie in the entire MCU, bring in the big guns.
    • The Masters of Evil: I think we've talked about them before.
    • The Void: Could take Ultron's place in the Masters. I mostly want to see him since the biggest mistake with Sentry/Void was that he got too many origins and a movie only has time for one.

I removed all the villains that we are pretty sure are going to show up in the next movies and some that we've already talked about a lot.

I was kind of bored.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24514: Jan 2nd 2015 at 3:05:14 PM

Deathbird and Dr. Minerva would both be good Captain Marvel villains.

I'm sure we'll see Klaw in Black Panther since he's all but confirmed for AOU but at the same time I'd like to see Man-Ape as well, but I'm sure Marvel wants to avoid the Unfortunate Implications.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#24515: Jan 2nd 2015 at 3:10:08 PM

Deathbird could probably be changed to be Kree instead of Shi'ar. Man, most of Carol's good villains are all connected to the Kree.

I'm still amazed that Mar-Vell's list of personal enemies contains guys that the Avengers have trouble taking on even as a team. The personal rival of Thanos?smile

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#24516: Jan 2nd 2015 at 4:10:16 PM

villains for Captain Marvel: The skrull version of Mar-Vell from Secret Invasion.

....what? it could be a pretty cool idea.

DirectorCannon Since: Nov, 2011
#24517: Jan 2nd 2015 at 4:13:03 PM

[up] The rights for the Skrulls are tied up with the Fantastic Four over at Fox.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24518: Jan 2nd 2015 at 4:17:26 PM

They're just going to keep doing Doom and Galactus over and over again. Why do they have to hog all the fun stuff

A Secret Invasion movie could be awesome

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24519: Jan 2nd 2015 at 5:08:28 PM

It's been established multiple times by now that they're a joint owned property. Marvel can conceivably use the Skrulls whenever they like.

Whedon himself debunked the rumor that they weren't in Avengers because of rights issues.

edited 2nd Jan '15 5:14:37 PM by comicwriter

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24520: Jan 2nd 2015 at 5:32:07 PM

What's a Skrull?

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24521: Jan 2nd 2015 at 5:33:32 PM

A pirate skull.

Or

A shape shifting alien race that want to take over Earth because. Also got into fights with the Kree a bunch.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#24522: Jan 2nd 2015 at 5:35:15 PM

The aliens from Avengers were the Chitauri, or Skrull stand-ins from Ultimate Marvel.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24523: Jan 2nd 2015 at 5:35:19 PM

So Pirates are going to crossover into MCU now? tongue

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#24525: Jan 2nd 2015 at 7:35:27 PM

Nefaria could be an interesting villain moving forward. With superhumans and comparable tech now really starting to becoming a thing in the MCU, a guy who's role is controlling the inevitable international superhuman weapons trade and making organized crime syndicate out of supervillains sounds really neat. And since he's more of a general Marvel villain, he could easily fight pretty much anybody - he could be in a tv show or a movie, and his niche makes it easy for him to be either a supporting or a major antagonist.


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