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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#24376: Dec 30th 2014 at 12:10:04 PM

I could only do that show two or three episodes at a time on Netflix. Hulk is my least-favorite character on the show. If only because there's apparently some mandate that animated Hulk has to be the most powerful being in the universe, kinda like with EMH Hulk.

My various fanfics.
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#24377: Dec 30th 2014 at 12:10:51 PM

While I suppose anything is possible I would say that assuming the picture is legitimate there's a much better then 50% chance that Ultron is based on a Chitauri AI, and a pretty good chance at Thanos himself having a hand in it's presence. My guess is that the intent is to give Ultron a more concrete link to the rest of the MCU.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24378: Dec 30th 2014 at 12:33:04 PM

[up][up] Probably better than United They Stand. The character design, the writing, the voices... I can barely get through an episode.

But one day I shall. For some reason.

edited 30th Dec '14 12:33:22 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24379: Dec 30th 2014 at 12:47:05 PM

[up][up]I really don't think so. I mean for Thanos to be behind everything that'd take some tremendous foresight on his part.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24380: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:27:45 PM

Whew, went on a thread binge from page 443 to here.

Going back to an old topic, does anyone know why would Marvel want spider man in the MCU rather than the Fantastic Four? Granted Spidey has prominence on his own in the story, but given what large of a role Susan and Mr. Fantastic play in this story as well as Infinity War, it seems like Marvel just went with the fan choice.

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24381: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:29:05 PM

Spider-Man is the bigger earner.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24382: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:30:48 PM

Yeah, but like everyone else mentioned he has his own successful verse already.

And the Fantastic Four have......... [Insert Awkward Pause]

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#24383: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:31:59 PM

Why would Marvel take the effort to get them back instead of waiting? With Spider-Man, there's still money to squeeze out of him. With Fantastic Four, they're probably hedging their bets that the new movie will be a flop.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24384: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:32:58 PM

The movies have never been 100 percent adaptations of the comics so they don't need the FF period. Any crossover like Infinity Gauntlet can simply be altered to slot someone else in the role.

But as for the original question? Mostly because Sony is in a far more precarious situation and is thus more likely to make a deal to save themselves. The leaks have revealed that the studio is in a complete state of disarray and that ASM 2's underperformance apparently had more of an effect than we'd originally thought.

Plus Spider-Man is just more of a mainstream draw than the Fantastic Four at this point. The only people really begging for the FF to go back to Marvel are the fanboys, whereas a lot more people in the general audience seem to like the idea of Spider-Man teaming up with the Avengers.

edited 30th Dec '14 1:35:18 PM by comicwriter

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24385: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:35:41 PM

[up][up]That goes without saying (being a flop- given all the rumors I've heard on the reboot thread), but wouldn't it make more sense to have Marvel be the ones to reboot them a second time rather than have the studio dive bomb it into oblivion and then have the audience's perception tainted a la TIH?

edited 30th Dec '14 1:36:11 PM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24386: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:37:33 PM

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. We don't know how the Fantastic Four will do until it's out and until that happens Marvel has no legal recourse whatsover. They can't do anything until Fox decides there's no money in the FF franchise, whereas Sony is already wounded and running scared.

Exactly what I was thinking. I believe I'd suggested that earlier in this thread, so now it seems to have a slightly higher chance of being the case.

Right. I'm predicting like the whole Kitty Pryde thing in DOFP, this could be their way of including Pym in SOME capacity.

edited 30th Dec '14 1:44:12 PM by comicwriter

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#24387: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:38:42 PM

I'm still amazed that Sony Pictures never told Sony HQ how badly it was going and that they had said no to talking with Marvel.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24388: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:46:47 PM

[up]That's likely Avi Arad's influence. He helped found Marvel Studios but then got squeezed out, so he's unlikely to try and make a deal if only because of his wounded pride.

edited 30th Dec '14 1:46:54 PM by comicwriter

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24389: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:47:07 PM

[up][up][up]I'm asking why Marvel should even care about Spiderman being in the MCU at all at this point. Unlike Fantastic Four which had strong ties to Infinity, the only real reason to have Spiderman in Civil War is just to have Spiderman in Civil War. As much as a fan boy I like the idea, they seem to be doing fine without him (Sony on the other hand... ) and this seems more like them wanting to appease the fans than looking at what will strengthen their franchise. Even the aftermath seems to be more in line with a Spiderman story arc of OMD, than setting up a larger marvel movie.

edited 30th Dec '14 1:47:33 PM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#24390: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:49:22 PM

Because despite the name, it's much more likely that Infinity War is an adaptation of the Infinity Gauntlet storyline... in which Spider-Man was a character of at least some note and the Fantastic Four were entirely absent.

In addition to Spider-Man's significantly greater name brand power and the fact that they currently only have a hope of pulling this with Sony.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24391: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:50:10 PM

[up][up]Well mostly because like I said above, the FF are only a concern if they are doing an exact adaptation, which they are not. And even then I don't remember them doing anything in Infinity Gauntlet other than dying offscreen to show how powerful Thanos has become.

They don't NEED Spider-Man or the FF but the difference is Spider-Man is now a much more likely possibility, as well as a much bigger draw.

edited 30th Dec '14 1:50:51 PM by comicwriter

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24392: Dec 30th 2014 at 1:55:38 PM

I dunno, I still think FF would be an easier purchase as well as a more effective team to bring in on the long run than Spider-Man. Given the publics current reception to Garfield and praising him as the "hands down best Spider Man portrayal EVAR made", and how so much of the same fanbase pretend the FF movies don't exist, I would have said Marvel's chances at getting Stan Lee's first comic book characters back is infinitely less stressful and significantly more welcomed.

edited 30th Dec '14 2:12:05 PM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24393: Dec 30th 2014 at 2:00:10 PM

FF would not be an easier purchase because as multiple people have just said Spider-Man is the only one who is even on the table. You can't have an easier purchase if one isn't even selling to you.

The other thing is that most of the complaints about the FF reboot are stuff that piss off hardcore fans. Most of the audience is not made up of hardcore fans. We don't know how the public is going to react to the movie and certainly after already spending a bunch of money on it it's not likely Fox would cancel and just sell the rights back to Marvel.

And again, "More welcomed" by whom exactly? In the eyes of the public Spider-Man is still the bigger property.

edited 30th Dec '14 2:01:07 PM by comicwriter

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24394: Dec 30th 2014 at 2:04:02 PM

Well, going directly from what I read from the Marvel Sony leaks, it seems like Marvel was the first to contact Sony about the deal while Sony seemed more or less reluctant with the idea. Especially considering they're the studio that pulled out in the end.

Anyway, I'm probably wrong but that's just what I got from the news articles I've read on the topic

edited 30th Dec '14 2:06:41 PM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#24395: Dec 30th 2014 at 2:08:52 PM

Given the publics current reception to Garfield and praising him as the "hands down best Spider-Man portrayal EVAR made"

okay but there has only been one other guy portraying Spider-man so that's not saying much

also i don't really like Garfield's portrayal of Spider-man.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#24396: Dec 30th 2014 at 2:15:42 PM

As far as properties that will actually make money go, Spider-Man is the obvious choice.

Nobody likes the Fantastic Four. Their movies don't sell, their comics are bland, their cartoons and video games fade quickly into obscurity. As lore goes, they've contributed a great deal to the Marvel canon to the point that many things tied up in their license rights feel inseparable from the universe, including some individual members of the group itself, but as lead protagonists, they're just not very entertaining.

Strictly from a lore perspective, reclaiming the Fantastic Four would open a great many doors for Marvel. Problem is, those doors are all background elements of other people's movies. So, maybe they could make a Nova movie where Nova can fight Galactus. Well, without the Fantastic Four, they can still make a Nova movie where he fights the Beyonder. There's so many properties at Marvel that they don't strictly need those elements the Fantastic Four would bring.

The only film they absolutely CANNOT make without the Fantastic Four rights is a Fantastic Four film. Similarly, the only film they absolutely CANNOT make without the Spider-Man rights is a Spider-Man film. Frankly, Spider-Men sells far better than the Fantastic Four could ever hope to, so there's no question which rights would be a better investment. Marvel's not going to spend millions of dollars to reclaim a property they can't turn around and sell to audiences, no matter how much it would enrich everyone else's movies.

edited 30th Dec '14 2:16:41 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24397: Dec 30th 2014 at 2:18:30 PM

Mostly because Sony is in a far more precarious situation and is thus more likely to make a deal to save themselves. The leaks have revealed that the studio is in a complete state of disarray and that ASM 2's underperformance apparently had more of an effect than we'd originally thought.

I curious as to what makes you think this rather than vice-versa. Considering that it was a Marvel production that Spiderman may or may not have been a part of, and it was Sony that eventually said no, I think it's more the reverse than anything else. Also critically disliked =/= flop. I think ASM 2 still made considerable money.

[up]No FF means no Doctor Doom. I know I'm shooting myself in the foot saying this, since Spidey has a plethora of fantastic villains, but really Marvel needs a really solid one than a bunch of Saturday morning cartoon ones and Doom was basically Earth's Thanos.

edited 30th Dec '14 2:21:17 PM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#24398: Dec 30th 2014 at 2:21:47 PM

There are a couple of reasons why Marvel is talking with Sony and now with Fox.

For starters, Spider-man is THE money maker for Marvel. Forget the movies, he will make tons in merchendise alone. The Fanstic Four on the other hand are barely above the B-Listers (or what used to be B-Listers).

The relationship between Disney/Marvel and Sony is also way better than the relationship to Fox. That is a long-standing business relationship in which both partners trust each other to a certain degree. Fox is another matter. It is an open secret that the discussions concerning Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch were less than friendly.

And then there is the matter of timing. Sony is in trouble. Fox isn't. They do pretty well with the X-men franchise. And even if they weren't, Marvel would be stupid not to wait for the reaction to the new Fantastic Four movie. If it fails, they will be in a way better position to make a deal. Because, let's face it, it might no viable for Fox to blow money into another Fantastic Four movie in six years, just to keep the rights. It might even simply slip away from the if Marvel is lucky. Then the right revert back to them automatically.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#24399: Dec 30th 2014 at 2:24:18 PM

...... Wait, I thought FF was Sony.

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#24400: Dec 30th 2014 at 2:26:00 PM

Sony has Spider-Man Fox has the X-Men and Fantastic Four. They used to have Daredevil but lost him, which is why Marvel is now doing a Netflix show.


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