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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#23776: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:03:18 PM

Just imagine DC would make a new Super-man movie and Super-man is suddenly not Clark Kent any longer but some other guy. Or Marvel making a new Hulk and out of nowhere Hulk is sudden blue and a woman, with no explanation whatsoever.

Marvel could rewrite Peter Quill's whole backstory because nobody knew who he was. They can do with the Got G whatever they want because, again, nobody knows how they should be. But if there had been 10 - 12 Guardians of the Galaxy Movies and TV-Shows, there wouldn't be so much leeway.

Most Superheroes are not that well established. Those who have been a constant presence in the media are. Everybody knows that Spider-man is Peter Parker, works as a photographer and is motivated by the dead of his uncle, which he could have prevented if he had done the right thing. Everybody knows that Superman was born on Krypton and that his home planet blew up. Everybody knows that Batman's parents died in this alley.

And saying that there was a Peter Parker spider-man beforehand would be even more awkward as connecting the current movies to the MCU.

Honestly, for the only good argument not to use Andrew Garfield is his age, because I assume that Marvel would love to have Peter Parker around as long as possible.

khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#23777: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:03:19 PM

[up][up]Hank Pym is not as popular or well-liked as Peter, nor is Ant-Man as iconic or firmly established as one person (especially considering how many aliases Pym has used) as Spider-Man. Argument overturned.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:05:02 PM by khfan429

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23778: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:05:15 PM

[up][up]But there aren't that many Supermans, and there's no blue, female hulk, in any reality. There is a Miles Morales, and he's pretty popular.

My various fanfics.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23779: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:05:16 PM

[up][up]No, it really isn't. Your point is that Miles can't be in a movie because he is not the original Spider-Man but a spin-off Legacy Character and my point is that the same thing could be said for Pym.

Your entire argument is insisting Peter needs more movies because he hasn't been done well, while if we're going off anecdotal evidence (like for example the "I don't like Miles I don't consider him Spider-Man!") I know many people whose response to the first reboot already was "Why do we need anymore Spider-Man films".

edited 14th Dec '14 4:09:07 PM by comicwriter

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23780: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:06:48 PM

Honestly, for the only good argument not to use Andrew Garfield

I like Garfield but if we're going this route? He's attached to a stinker movie that looks to now be a Franchise Killer. Don't want that stink in the MCU! (Again playing Devil's Advocate).

edited 14th Dec '14 4:07:12 PM by comicwriter

khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#23781: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:10:04 PM

[up][up]Yeah, it is, at least regarding Ant-Man. My point is that Pym, in the mainline universe, is not the only Ant-Man, nor is he known only as Ant-Man, which frees up the mantle for someone else. And Ant-Man being not nearly as iconic a character as Spider-Man, Marvel has more freedom to take liberties with the Ant-Man moniker anyways, because not as many people care.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:10:25 PM by khfan429

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#23782: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:11:00 PM

Besides, LegacyCharacters only work because they either build on top of the lore of their predecessor or their predecessor is obscure and nobody cares about them. If the movies make Miles the 2nd Spider-Man and Peter died offscreen, it'll be a little awkward to reintroduce audiences to stuff like Green Goblin or Venom as if assuming everyone watching knows who they are. Otherwise, Miles would simply be treated narratively as if he WAS Peter Parker, fighting Electro or Mysterio or whoever for the first time in the audience's eyes (which calls into question why he isn't Peter Parker in the first place). Miles doesn't exactly have much of his own stories to adapt, after all. There's Prowler aaaaaaaaaand that's about it... Heck, even Prowler was a villain of Peter first over in 616.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:14:16 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#23783: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:11:30 PM

[up][up]Aside from next to nobody outside of the comic book nerds knowing much about Ant-man, Ant-man is a whole movie with a lot of time to establish that there used to be a Hank Pygm who is passing the torch on. With Spider-man we are talking about adding the character to a movie as one of the more minor players. Civil war will be first and foremost about Steve and Tony. You just can't establish a lot in this. Just throwing Peter Parker in works because his origin story has been told multiple times already, it is known (just like the origin story of the Hulk was known). Throwing in some other guy, no matter which one, would require to explain that guy back-story. It would be a mess.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:12:03 PM by swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23784: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:12:54 PM

[up][up][up]And MY point is that "It's an alternate universe not the mainline" is irrelevant since the movies already have drawn a lot from various alternate universes (The Chitauri, Hawkeye and Falcon's looks, the origins of the Avengers themselves, Yondu, ect.) and the MCU is itself an alternate universe.

The argument that Miles can't be in a Spider-Man movie because in the comics he only exists in an alternate timeline doesn't mean that he can't appear in the main timeline of the movies because the movies already are not 100 percent strict adaptations of the comics. Hell the Amazing Spider-Man movies already took a lot of inspiration from the Ultimate universe, the same place Miles is from.

[up][up]Everyone DOES know who Green Goblin is. He's Spider-Man's Joker and Arch-Nemesis. And anyone else can be taken care of with some exposition. And again saying "There's only a few years of comics to adapt" doesn't matter because the movies are not and have never been literal adaptations of the source material.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:18:47 PM by comicwriter

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#23785: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:16:24 PM

Skipped the last page and a half because meh.

But yes, I will concede that I would be much less annoyed if it was Miles Morales instead of Peter Parker, because yes, Peter Parker!Spider-man all I do is climb the charts is more outplayed than Spider-Man specifically.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#23786: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:16:51 PM

Reign of the Supermen could be an interesting movie plot

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#23787: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:19:07 PM

[up][up][up]Wait wait wait, so we're not even talking about adapting Spider-Man comics here? I don't want an In Name Only adaptation! That's defeating the point of why I want to see Spider-Man in a movie in the first place!

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#23788: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:19:46 PM

Dick Grayson as Batman would probably be a better comparison than a non-Clark Kent Superman for this discussion.

[up]They don't have to adapt a story from the comics. Heck, they haven't really done so.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:21:17 PM by stingerbrg

khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#23789: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:20:57 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Except none of that is a justification for the extreme step of why Marvel, in their own in-house movie take on their universe, would choose not to use the definitive identity for one of their most iconic heroes, especially when the odds are good they'd skip over the things that make Peter Parker's Spider-Man overplayed in the first place.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:21:18 PM by khfan429

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23790: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:21:17 PM

[up][up][up]Errr, nobody said that. I'm saying you tried to dismiss Miles by saying he doesn't have enough plots to draw from and I'm saying NONE OF THE MOVIES ARE LITERAL ADAPTATIONS OF EXISTING STORIES. The plot of the Avengers never happened in the comics. The plot of Iron Man 2 and Iron Man 3 never happened. The plots of Thor and Thor 2 never happened. Hell the movies did away with Don Blake in general. Alexander Pierce was never a HYDRA agent and a traitor and the Winter Soldier was not created by Arnim Zola.

The point is that the screenwriters already use a certain amount of original, non-canonical material for the movie plots so there's no reason Miles not having an extensive published history would be a sticking point.

[up]Actually I did. Using Miles means they can do something they haven't done before with any of the 5 (soon to be 6) movies that have been made starring Peter Parker so there's immediately a tone of them doing something fresh and new instead of provoking a "FUCK WHY ARE THEY MAKING ANOTHER ONE" reaction.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:31:28 PM by comicwriter

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#23791: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:21:25 PM

[up][up][up]But he's also been Robin and Nightwing and he's known for working side-by-side with the original Batman. Terry might be a better choice, except he also works regularly with old man-Bruce...

[up]But I don't want TOO MUCH original stuff in this hypothetical Miles Morales movie. Yeah, Thor 2 never "happened" in the comics, but a lot of the characters/concepts did. Now imagine we switched to female-Thor all of a sudden. Pretty big change, right? And that in and of itself wouldn't be bad, but where do we draw the line and say "Okay, stop, that's too different, we're drifting away from what the movie is supposed to be?"

edited 14th Dec '14 4:30:53 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23793: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:30:21 PM

I mean, the only people you could really use for Superman in this metaphor would have to be...I dunno, Connor Kent or Val-Zod or the Black Superman who was just Obama from Final Crisis.

My various fanfics.
CorrTerek The Permanently Confused from The Bland Line Since: Jul, 2009
The Permanently Confused
#23794: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:37:39 PM

Count me in the list of people voting for Miles. Peter Parker has had quite a bit of time in the spotlight. Let's let someone else wear the mantle for a bit.

[down]This is fine with me.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:39:35 PM by CorrTerek

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#23795: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:38:29 PM

Why does Miles Morales have to be Hispanic Spider-man? Let's make him the only Spider-man.

Just mix and match. Give him Miles Morales' appearance, name, his personality and his costume.

Then give him Peter's backstory and villains.

I get that we like the passing the torch idea but we'll already be doing that soon with Captain America.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:39:16 PM by MadSkillz

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#23796: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:40:44 PM

[up]I'll be sold with that idea so long as you leave out the "has Miles's personality" part. Miles is even whinier than the original.

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23797: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:42:57 PM

....Isn't Miles Black Spider-Man, anyway?

My various fanfics.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#23798: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:44:34 PM

He's black and puerto rican, I believe.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#23799: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:47:09 PM

Hispanic isn't a racial designation but an ethnic one.

You can be Hispanic and be black, white, bi-racial, tri-racial etc. at the same time.

If we were going to get bogged in details then Miles is actually the Hispanic multi-racial Spider-man.

@spsash Okay then mix and match Peter and Miles' personality. Just no more Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane. For dear God, I'm done with Spider romances.

Give him Miles' powers too.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:49:20 PM by MadSkillz

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#23800: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:48:05 PM

[up] Spider-Man, Spider-man, multi-racial Spider-man...

Oh God! Natural light!

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