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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#23751: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:25:35 PM

[up][up] I don't know. It'd be kind of awkward...

...Unless they had him active sometime in the past couple of decades; something similar to what they seem to be doing with Hank Pym. That might work.

I really don't think Miles deserves to be the MCU Spider-Man. 1) The MCU is the most well-known Marvel adaptation in the public eye, so having anyone but Peter Parker will inevitably make little kids and people unfamiliar with general Spider-Man lore to get confused. 2) Miles hasn't been Spidey that long, and when he is Spidey, a good chunk of his adventures are "angsting" and "crossing over with the original Spider-Man through improbable means." 3) I don't like him and he's terrible and Ultimate Peter was my favorite character ever and then they ruined him for this crap I wish Miles would go away forever uuuuuaaaaaagh!

1) They'll learn.

2) "Angst" is pretty much par for the course as far as Marvel heroes go. I'm sure they'd be able to throwing something together from what stories we already have.

3) Um...I'm sorry? That's not really a major issue, though.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:30:18 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
czhang from Canada Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#23752: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:27:54 PM

There are over 10 hours of Peter Parker as live-action Spider-man, he's had his time. Miles is amazing.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:28:17 PM by czhang

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23753: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:28:30 PM

I really don't think you could do that. Miles has to be the only Spider-Man in the MCU, or the implication that Peter Parker was just some random asshole in the background who died and never did anything that mattered in the grand scheme, the shitstorm would be tremendous. Better to not have him at all.

My various fanfics.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#23754: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:32:39 PM

[up][up][up] Like Hank, though, they would need a movie, which isn't going to be happening for a really long time even if this does pan out. If they're really looking to introduce Spidey in an after credits scene, they're not going to have that kind of time.

Really, this whole thing suffers from the same problem - Miles or Peter. The movies are all planned out. There's no room for any real development of a Spider-Man in the verse, unless they stick in him a tv show. He'd just be appearing in a glorified cameo. I'm just focusing on Miles because I feel he comes with a bit more backstory to consider, but there's no real way of establishing that he's picking up the torch from another important character when he's just making a two bit appearance (without, as comicwriter suggested, just having Peter be referenced in a throwaway line, which would have the effect Sharknado noted).

Even outside of that, it's definitely a bad idea to have any of the Spider-Men first appear unmasking in Civil War. The entire reason that unmasking was an important thing is because of the impact the secret had with the readers. We've never known a Spider-Man in this verse, so everything's he would be giving up by way of unmasking doesn't really matter. At this point, they could replace Spidey with any character they adapted or even made up for the moment and the effect would be the same, since Spider-Man doesn't really have a presence. Heck, the concept of a secret identity isn't even really a thing in this universe.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:34:52 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23755: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:33:56 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]You almost had me until you just admitted this was about you and your baggage.

And nah, audiences wouldn't be confused. If they could successfully sell the idea of "Here's a new guy playing Spider-Man and no this has nothing to do with the original trilogy" I don't see how "Peter Parker was Spider-Man. Now he's dead. Now this guy is Spider-Man" is terribly complicated.

Again this general idea of "The audience won't accept this" seems a little silly in an age where Marvel just successfully sold them a movie about a talking raccoon.

Everyone and their grandmother knows who Spider-Man is and what his basic origin story is. There's no need to re-explain or reestablish it AGAIN.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:34:32 PM by comicwriter

TenebrousGaze Dark Eye from A Shaded Face Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
Dark Eye
#23756: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:34:37 PM

Miles first appeared in 2011 and he's got into one of the animated series and a few video games. He's certainly a viable choice.

[down]Peter has been in every adaptation, yes, but he's been alongside Miles (or Miguel for that matter) in a few of them.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:37:50 PM by TenebrousGaze

swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#23757: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:34:43 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Exactly because Peter Parker has always been Spider-man, not just in the movies, but in ALL adaptations, you can't just replace him. Nobody outside of the Comic book community even knows who Miles Morales is.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:35:04 PM by swanpride

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#23758: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:34:57 PM

IMO best strategy for Spidey is to use him like Stan Lee. He never unmasks, just shows up at a random point for a scene in the other people's films.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23759: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:35:56 PM

[up][up]Nobody outside comics knew who most of these characters were before their movies. Nice try.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:36:19 PM by comicwriter

khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#23760: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:36:56 PM

[up]How about "we should get a solid adaptation of the original that hasn't been reduced to garbage by the end before we pass it off to the alternate universe second banana?"

DirectorCannon Since: Nov, 2011
#23761: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:37:14 PM

@comicwriter This isn't about character, it's about telling a backstory neatly.

If you set up Miles as "This is Spider Man! Except there used to be another Spider Man!"

Then the audience will ask, "Oh is he important? Are we going to see him?"

"No!"

"Then why the fuck did you tell us that?"

edited 14th Dec '14 3:37:33 PM by DirectorCannon

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#23762: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:38:08 PM

[up][up][up][up] That could actually work. Like, he shows up in a few movies, saving people, doing good, and the characters and the audience wonder who he is and whether he's a liability or not. The audience expects Peter, and when Civil War comes around Iron Man makes sure to track down to make sure he's not a liability and makes him unmask - during which he gives a speech about how he wasn't the first person to wear the mask - the first guy was, say, the Spidey we see in Ultron, who died saving others. He calls out the heroes of the world for not caring about the everyday people, and then unmasks himself as Miles.

It'd be like establishing Spider-Man from the perspective of someone outside Spidey's circle, and it it would actually have narrative weight. It'd work, if done well.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:40:25 PM by KnownUnknown

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#23763: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:38:37 PM

[up][up] Well, I never said they would never show him.

Although I suppose there wouldn't be much of a point.

[up] It's a good idea, but we don't really have the time at this stage.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:39:59 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23764: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:38:45 PM

[up][up][up][up]Because as others have said there's been absolutely no shortage of Peter Parker-related media in the last 15 years.

There's definitely comic characters you can claim got screwed over or haven't been done justice. Spider-Man is not one of them.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:39:14 PM by comicwriter

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#23765: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:41:45 PM

Nobody outside comics knew who most of these characters were before their movies.

That's precisely why Spider-Man needs a different approach. None of their other characters had the public exposure and product recognition Spider-Man does. At this point, Spider-Man isn't just a comic character that nobody knows that the movies will be breathing life into and introducing, he's a fixture of pop culture that's being fit in like a square peg to a round hole.

And, as noted, this isn't entirely about adapting Spider-Man as is. It's about introducing him into a universe that has gone on fine without him (or characters like him) for years in a way that actually works narratively, and doesn't feel intrusive, without actually giving him a movie to explain how he fits in.

[up][up] Depends. They could have him show up in the background for a second in Ultron, again in Ant-Man, and a few times in the Netflix shows. Though you're right in that there just plain isn't a lot of time.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:47:56 PM by KnownUnknown

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#23766: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:46:15 PM

[up]x11 Okay, yes, I'm biased. To be fair, I might accept Miles more if someone sells me the idea better than the comics have. The Ultimate comics just did this "Peter abruptly dies out of nowhere" nonsense (and then he even more abruptly came back to life somehow or other because COMICS). But I don't think trying to shoehorn Miles into the MCU is the right way to make me like him better.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:46:55 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
GoukaRyuu Since: Aug, 2012
#23767: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:47:54 PM

I honestly don't see any issue with establish Miles as Spider-Man and there was no Spider-Man before him. Why can't he be the only/first?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23768: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:48:43 PM

[up][up]No offense but this isn't about getting you to like the character. If characters weren't allowed movie appearances because of anecdotal instances of someone not liking them nobody would be getting movies.

Though if that's the case maybe my dislike of Loki's Wolverine Publicity is why he didn't get a Phase 3 movie!tongue

edited 14th Dec '14 3:50:32 PM by comicwriter

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#23769: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:50:38 PM

[up][up] <shrug> Taking on the torch and all that goes with it is, I feel, one of the things that makes Miles so particularly interesting as an individual, as apposed to just being "the Hispanic Spider-Man." If you're not doing that you might as well just use Peter Parker, and if you still want him to be Hispanic then you might as well just Race Lift him.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:59:37 PM by KnownUnknown

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#23770: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:53:04 PM

[up][up]But if I don't personally like the character, obviously I don't want to see their stupid face in smack in the middle of the shared movie universe I like. It's not that I have any sway over the matter so much as I'm crossing my fingers, chanting to myself, "Please not Miles, please not Miles, please..."

Anyways, the best way to get me to like Miles is to tell good stories using Miles, which... hasn't happened yet. At all. Sticking his face in every Spider-Man adaptation ever from now on won't change that. Quality over quantity, is what I'm saying. Now, Miles could show up in the movies and be AMAZING. God knows I didn't give two craps about Iron Man until his movie rolled out. It's just, if the writers have the ability to write a character really well, I'd rather have well-written Peter than well-written Miles because I know I already love Peter to pieces.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:56:03 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23771: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:54:59 PM

[up]Eh. That's already quite subjective because you're asserting Miles is a terrible character and has never had any good stories as though that is a cold, objective fact, when I on the other hand would disagree entirely. So once again I don't see how "I don't like him" has much to do in a conversation over what should be done with Spider-Man in the MCU when not everyone is going to hold your biased view of the character.

I mean by your own example I'm kind of chanting "Please not Peter" because I've had my fill of his movies in the last decade.

edited 14th Dec '14 3:56:01 PM by comicwriter

khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#23772: Dec 14th 2014 at 3:59:45 PM

I'm chanting "please not Miles" because he's not Spider-Man. He is Spider-Man in one singular parallel take on the character, and however good he actually is (personally, I don't much care for him), that shouldn't give him the honor of being Spider-Man in what would probably be his definitive movie portrayal, a multi-film universe that has him rubbing shoulders with the likes of RDJ's Tony Stark and Chris Evan's Steve Rogers.

The reason you see Peter Parker in every Spider-Man adaptation? He is Spider-Man, and Miles Morales should have no more claim to that mantle than Spider-Gwen or Ben Reilly.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#23773: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:00:27 PM

Technically, Ben Reilly is also Peter Parker.

My various fanfics.
spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#23774: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:01:00 PM

[up][up][up]It all boils down to "people have different opinions on different stuff." In fact, I'd argue it makes more sense for a comic fan like myself to desire things based on personal taste rather than saying "Well, I don't like this concept, but I realize it should be done for the greater good." I mean, aren't comic book movies pretty much driven by Popularity Power anyways? When you have decades worth of characters and stories that could all potentially be adapted well or poorly, what factors are the filmmakers supposed to use to determine what makes the cut?

edited 14th Dec '14 4:01:29 PM by spashthebandragon

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#23775: Dec 14th 2014 at 4:01:16 PM

[up][up][up]Meh. The movies are already Adaptation Distillation. Peter's had 5 movies already and unless Sinister Six falls through is poised to be in a sixth in 2016.

And something similar could be said for Hank Pym but that hasn't stopped Marvel from using Scott Lang instead.

[up]If Popularity Power were the case then we wouldn't be getting a Scott Lang movie and we sure as shit would not have gotten Guardians of the Galaxy. And even if it were not everyone shares your view of Miles so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. The movies have not nor have they ever been purely about pleasing the fanboys or doing what is popular.

edited 14th Dec '14 4:03:03 PM by comicwriter


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