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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#23151: Dec 4th 2014 at 7:59:24 PM

@Cumberbatch: Meh. I remain optimistic, and hope that his more rabid fans will be the worst thing about his casting.

@"casting another white male": Doctor Strange's race is incidental to his character. And while yes, that means they don't necessarily have to cast a white male in the part, it also means they shouldn't have to be obligated to cast an actor of another race just to appease the people who think that "because him being white isn't the crux of his character, he should be cast as something else".

And anyone who's willing to let the fact that the studios have cast a white actor in a role that is white ( incidental to his character or not) color their perception of the movie is just as shallow as the people who complain when a white role is cast with an actor in another race. And waving the righteous flag of advancement does nothing to change that.

edited 4th Dec '14 8:01:13 PM by khfan429

swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#23152: Dec 4th 2014 at 8:03:50 PM

Not this race discussion again. Could Dr. Strange have been of any ethnicity? Yes and no....I think that the actor should look somewhat like the character, but since he is drawn somewhat Asian from the get go, I think an Asian actor would have certainly worked. But there is nothing racist about picking a white actor to play a white character. He just is.

And I maintain that BC is a perfect fit for the role. Though if he and Hiddleston end up in one movie down the lines, ovaries all over the world might burst.

edited 4th Dec '14 8:26:08 PM by swanpride

kalel94 Rascal King from Dragonstone Since: Feb, 2011
Rascal King
#23153: Dec 4th 2014 at 10:33:44 PM

There's nothing racist about this specific instance, since yeah, Strange is a white character. If he had been the first property Marvel had adapted, then sure, go for it. But this is gonna be their 12th or 13th or whatever movie headlined by a white guy. They couldn't have been arsed to make at least one character a different race?

By this point, it's the general trend that's racist.

Also, race aside, when did we all turn against the Batch? Jesus, people the man puts in solid work, and y'all are just whining about him for the sake of being contrarian.

edited 4th Dec '14 10:36:10 PM by kalel94

The last hurrah? Nah, I'd do it again.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#23154: Dec 4th 2014 at 10:37:05 PM

Nothing's racist in isolation. But that's the thing. You can't say "this time it's not racist", because racism is a trend.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#23157: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:03:59 PM

@Kalel: I'm not sure about when the worm turned on the Batch. It's the price of success I suppose. Get cast in one TOO many popular movies and then everyone hates your guts because you're 'everywhere'.

Jennifer Lawrence has suffered a backlash as well.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#23158: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:06:08 PM

I don't hate Benny, but I am getting somewhat tired of seeing him, and his fans can be rather annoying.

Also doesn't really look much like Strange to me. Hopefully he can grow some good facial hair.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#23159: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:09:10 PM

He's been seen with facial hair before. He looks fine.

And really, if people want to cast him in their movies, it's not really his fault. I've seen him in nothing except Sherlock, so hey I don't care.

I say this because some folks on Tumblr are perhaps taking his casting a bit too personally.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#23160: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:13:07 PM

And anyone who's willing to let the fact that the studios have cast a white actor in a role that is white ( incidental to his character or not) color their perception of the movie is just as shallow as the people who complain when a white role is cast with an actor in another race.

Anyways, I'm tired of Raggity-Ghost Dooberhack. I wish we had gotten Pedro Pascal like me and a girl friend of mine wanted. I would've settled for Oscar Isaac Hernandez though.

edited 4th Dec '14 11:15:26 PM by MadSkillz

swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#23161: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:16:31 PM

I think the issue is more if Marvel should have picked a different character first than the question if Dr. Strange should be white. But that is more a general Marvel issue (that most main characters are straight white guys) in general. It is really not fair to use a casting which fits the character they intend to create as a source of discontent. That's like me complaining that they didn't cast a female actor for the role (and no, I don't want a female Dr. Strange, I still want a Black Widow Spy movie).

Honestly, is there one actor out there who can do "arrogant" better than BC?

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#23162: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:20:24 PM

And really, let's not stoop to making fun of the guy's face and name. It's starting to feel a bit petty.

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#23163: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:41:30 PM

It's less specifically a Marvel issue and more an issue of the fact that the most popular characters in comics were created between the late 1930s and the late '60s. The world was extremely, and obviously racist. That's just the way society was. So there's a dearth of minority superheroes. Women don't get the best treatment in comics for similar reasons (and unfortunately, while their numbers are probably better, they're depictions are typically far worse).

There's been real effort made to introduce more heroes of colour (is that a phrase already? It should be) in recent years, but the problem is that they're recent. New heroes don't tend to catch on the way they classics did. You pretty much have to be part of a team to be an entirely new hero and make it anymore. Even Guardians of the Galaxy, which used the 2008 run for its source material, starred characters created in at least the 1970s.

It's a matter of history. The only real solution to so many popular superheroes being white men is to create better, or at least, more minority and female heroes, and hope that one sticks. It's not the best strategy, but at least it sort of works. Marvel took the opportunity to make a change with Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel, and they're really pushing her to be a household name. Thanks to that change, Ms. Marvel is apparently doing quite well for itself with Kamala Khan (is that how it's spelled? I don't actually read the books).

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#23164: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:43:55 PM

^^ Welcome to the internet. "Petty" is one of the things it does best, likewise jumping to conclusions on the barest shreds of factoids (like facts, but not) and declaring things RUINED FOREVER because of one minor little detail that has absolutely no bearing on character or plot. tongue

edited 4th Dec '14 11:44:04 PM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#23165: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:44:12 PM

If they ever get Spider-man back, I hope they use Miles Morales.

Also because I think people are getting born of Peter Parker.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#23166: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:54:51 PM

As far as I'm aware, only one person was ever born of Peter Parker. She was pretty cool.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#23167: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:56:05 PM

There were supposed to be more, but Joe Quesada thought it aged Peter, so they were born of Norman Osborn instead.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#23168: Dec 4th 2014 at 11:57:03 PM

I still can't stop reading that guy's name as quesadilla.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#23169: Dec 5th 2014 at 12:06:03 AM

Ms. Marvel #1 is fast approaching double digit reprints.

Frankly I disagree that the only solution is to just keep introducing more characters and hope something sticks. Changing the races of existing characters can and has worked in the movies thus far, and if Marvel wants to protest that its minority characters aren't popular enough to have movies yet than it'd be nice to see them continue that trend on a larger scale if only so that it can look like they're at least trying to fix this.

edited 5th Dec '14 12:07:13 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Mr.Didact Keep Hope Alive from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: Naked on a bearskin rug, playing the saxophone
Keep Hope Alive
#23170: Dec 5th 2014 at 12:52:02 AM

[up] This. In DC Land we have Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Cyborg getting their own movies and none of them are white (Cyborg never was but still). Even Flash is played by a Jewish guy. Hell even prominent villains like Deadshot and Black Adam are being played by black actors. I personally wish that these movies will succeed, but even if they don't the public perception of these characters will probably shift to the races they have in the films despite what the comic fans know. Race lifting existing characters DOES work, virtually everyone thinks of Nick Fury as black even though the original version was a white guy.

edited 5th Dec '14 1:04:20 AM by Mr.Didact

Stand Fast, Stand Strong, Stand Together
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#23171: Dec 5th 2014 at 1:02:49 AM

that have to be more with samuek L jackson one of the most memetic actor ever.

But race lift have his issues even if chaning a white chararter, usually is feel they are milking the pularity of a chararter and pandering to fans("this is the spider everyone loves, but now is latino...yeah, just like that") and it feel a disrespect to the chararter and the fans

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#23172: Dec 5th 2014 at 2:08:50 AM

[up]Yeah, I agree...it just depends on the character. Sometimes a race lift of gender change works, and sometimes not.

And I don't think that there will ever be another Spider-man in the movies as Peter Parker. That's what the audience is used to. The alternative is not mainstream enough.

Generally speaking, I prefer them creating new characters or changing mostly forgotten/minor ones, instead of going for the popular ones. True, new ones have it hard to become mainstream...but it can be done. It's not like there weren't new Superheroes who made a big splash in the last 70 years or so. There are always break-through characters.

MiscellaneousSoup (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#23173: Dec 5th 2014 at 3:34:53 AM

I don't really know who Benedict Cumberbatch is, despite hearing his name at random times. Therefore, I am mostly interested in seeing the film. Casting usually doesn't attract my attention.

swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#23174: Dec 5th 2014 at 3:43:02 AM

[up]Considering how many people watch Sherlock worldwide, I don't think that there are many who don't know him at all and have never seen him act.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#23175: Dec 5th 2014 at 6:22:42 AM

It's such a shame that the Doctor Strange movie was cancelled by Marvel, you guys. How tragic.

edited 5th Dec '14 6:23:12 AM by higherbrainpattern


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