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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#22376: Nov 10th 2014 at 10:22:58 AM

I stand with Tobias on Bendis. At worst his works are mediocres, but still entertaining enough. Ultimate Spider-Man and his X-Men are actually great. Alias is pretty good also.

Sure, he is not the best writer out there, and he is apparently not very good with more epic stories (his best works are more low key), but it is still a writer I recommend, and certainly not one I would say to avoid.

Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#22377: Nov 10th 2014 at 12:13:28 PM

Who is the best writer at Marvel right now? Is there a consensus?

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22378: Nov 10th 2014 at 12:15:51 PM

No consensus. It's all personal taste.

Beaver Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#22381: Nov 10th 2014 at 1:09:33 PM

And no matter how good you are, your story will eventually become just one in a world saturated with similar stories, unless you're lucky enough to become a memorable "classic."

edited 10th Nov '14 1:09:56 PM by KnownUnknown

Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#22382: Nov 10th 2014 at 4:01:17 PM

Lego Marvel Super Heroes has made me realize I want Coulson to be written into a movie not direct by Joss Whedon again.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#22383: Nov 10th 2014 at 5:07:46 PM

Who is the best writer at Marvel right now? Is there a consensus?

If I had to chose one, without thinking about it too much, I would say Kieron Gillen. Everything he writes is quite good, one way or another.

But, yeah, no consensus.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#22384: Nov 10th 2014 at 5:12:53 PM

That dude's name is far too close to Karen Gillan.

Has he written a Nebula comic?

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#22385: Nov 10th 2014 at 5:14:29 PM

[up]No, but he is one of the protagonists of The Last War in Albion and in regular contact with one Mr. P Sandifer.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
czhang from Canada Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#22386: Nov 10th 2014 at 8:37:47 PM

[up][up]No, but he's photoshopped his head onto Karen Gillan's body. If that counts for anything.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#22387: Nov 11th 2014 at 12:31:14 AM

So I just started reading Annihilation. Holy crap this is awesome.

BTW anyone seen Marvel's 75th anniversary special? It's really sick actually [1] and makes me wonder- with the success of their recent films does anyone still think Marvel SHOULDN'T regain ownership of all of their film licenses? And if so, please explain to me in fine detail why not.

edited 11th Nov '14 12:38:16 AM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#22388: Nov 11th 2014 at 12:39:49 AM

[up]Pro: if Marvel go the licence back, they would be able to make crossovers however they liked, and they would most likely do better with some properties ('cough' Fantastic Four 'cough') than the current rights holder.

Contra: If they get the A-listers back they will most likely concentrate on them, which might result in the current B-listers being pushed aside. Also, some people don't even want the X-Men in the MCU because they don't think that the concept of hated mutants fits into a world in which Superpowered beings are otherwise worshipped.

I think in an ideal world, Fantastic Four would fall back to the MCU soon, Disney agrees with Sony about some sort of cooperation and Fox makes with X-Men whatever they want.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#22389: Nov 11th 2014 at 12:52:01 AM

X Men is barely passable for me. If it wasn't for the perfect casting of Hugh Jackman, Patrick Stewart and Ian Mckellan, I wouldn't watch the films. And even then, they killed my excitement with sequelitis. I can see why they wouldn't really fit the Marvel Studios brand but I equally wouldn't mind seeing them in it either.

Spider Man is shit. I never got into the original films even as a kid. The newer films, the only good thing is Andrew Garfield, Sally Field and Emma Stone (but I guess she no longer counts since they already killed off Gwen). If Disney wants to do a crossover, I'd be content. Otherwise, I see no reason Marvel can't have their most iconic character back.

Everything else from studios.....I honestly couldn't give a crap about.

edited 11th Nov '14 12:52:52 AM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#22390: Nov 11th 2014 at 12:54:27 AM

[up]Oh, I don't like the Fox take on X-Men either, but a lot of people do, and as long as they hold the licence, I don't have to deal with them in the MCU. I really prefer them in a separate universe.

Mattonymy Mr. Dr. from The Evils of Free Will Since: Jul, 2010
Mr. Dr.
#22391: Nov 11th 2014 at 1:00:37 AM

I suppose. But that also means we won't be able to see the Brood or an Astonishing Xmen storyline directed by the only man suited- Joss Whedon in the MCU for that reason either

edited 11th Nov '14 1:06:54 AM by Mattonymy

You are displaying abnormally high compulsions to over-analyze works of fiction and media. Diagnosis: TV Tropes Addiction.
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#22392: Nov 11th 2014 at 6:18:52 AM

Honestly, the only X-men property I want available to marvel is Deadpool.

I couldn't care less about the rest.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#22393: Nov 11th 2014 at 7:42:32 AM

perfect casting of Hugh Jackman

Define "perfect". Because the character he's playing is supposed to be a short, ugly, hairy man with a light-switch temper, who looks like he wants to stab someone 85% of the time that there isn't a beer in his hand.

Hugh Jackman is a great actor and he clearly has a lot of fun with his role, but I contest the assertion that anything about Fox's Wolverine has anything to do with Wolverine.

On the greater X-Men debate, I agree with Swanpride. Marvel has made great strides at trying to incorporate the X-Men into the greater MCU in the comics recently, but for most of their history even in many ways still today, the X-Men's premise is fundamentally incompatible with the entire rest of their shared universe.

It's really hard to get behind the idea that Captain America is a champion of freedom and justice but thinks the mutants can all go f*ck off and die, refusing to lift a single solitary finger to help them. Or that the American media is comfortable celebrating Thor, Captain Marvel, and the like but has arbitrarily chosen to launch hate campaigns against mutants. Or that the government is so comfortable with superheroes that Iron Man can be appointed secretary of defense, but mutants are rounded up and put in death camps for the crime of existing.

edited 11th Nov '14 7:42:55 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#22394: Nov 11th 2014 at 7:46:16 AM

Hugh Jackman is a great actor and he clearly has a lot of fun with his role, but I contest the assertion that anything about Fox's Wolverine has anything to do with Wolverine.

The hair. The hair is great.

edited 11th Nov '14 7:54:27 AM by Heatth

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#22395: Nov 11th 2014 at 7:53:26 AM

I'd rather Marvel not get any of their old licenses back. It's fun watching characters I've never heard of/know very little about. Relying on A-Listers would, in my opinion at least, make things lazy.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#22396: Nov 11th 2014 at 7:53:33 AM

[up][up] Fair enough.

edited 11th Nov '14 7:53:48 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#22397: Nov 11th 2014 at 7:56:42 AM

Btw, I disagree that the mutants are incompatible to super heroes being celebrities. It is like saying black people don't suffer prejudice because Will Smith is a movie star. Hell, it is like saying they don't suffer prejudice because Scarlett Johanssonnote  is a star.

The prejudice against mutants have never been only about powers. At most, that is only the justification. But the main thing is you can never know who is one, they could be hiding just near you. Also, it is easier to think of super heroes as victims (as most gained their powers by accident) than mutants. Not to mention the hate against mutants is often sssociated to religious intolerance, which isn't translatable to super heroes(Captain America isn't the "next step on 'evolution'", so he isn't offending God).

Yes, it is apparently a contradiction, as super humans and mutants are so much alike. But these kind paradoxical thinking do exist in real life, so I don't see why it is so absurd in comics.

I do agree most writers don't write the issue well or realistically, though. And the inconsistency hurts the believability.

edited 11th Nov '14 7:56:59 AM by Heatth

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#22398: Nov 11th 2014 at 8:02:37 AM

The problem there is that X-Men stories take the prejudice WAY too far. Like, seriously, WAY too f*cking far.

Prejudice is alive and well in much of the First World today, but for the most part, we've more or less agreed that rounding up minorities and shooting them is not acceptable behavior for a government to partake of. X-Men fall into a weird place where they're simultaneously trying to be a story about oppression and prejudice but also need to be superheroes, which means prejudice has to take forms that can be punched - forms like the Sentinel Program, for instance, in which the government commissions giant death robots that fly around cities murdering any civilians that have the wrong genes.

It's hard to buy the defense that the persecution of mutants falls under realistic parameters of minority treatment when the persecution of mutants approaches Holocaust-levels of oppression.

EDIT: As far as the religious extremism go, many superheroes are extremely offensive on a Fundamentalist level. Doctor Strange and the Scarlet Witch are practicing witches, Thor's very existence is blasphemous against God, and Ghost Rider signed a Faustian pact with the f*cking devil. None of these people are as reviled as mutants. Asgard moved in next door to Broxton, Oklahoma and remained for years, and never received even half as much passionate fundamentalist hate as mutants do. The religious extremists, like every else, have arbitrarily chosen to hate mutants - and ONLY mutants - despite the existence of other reasonable targets.

edited 11th Nov '14 8:09:03 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#22399: Nov 11th 2014 at 8:14:25 AM

[up]That I can agree with. But most of the good stories actually don't have the government attacking mutants, unless it is the future(or Canada). It is usually some other organization who starts things. The first Sentinel stories is a big example. People usually remember as if it was the Government that sicked them into the mutants, but it was Trask who made them by himself, and then lost control. Hell, even Days of Future Past was mostly consequence of the Sentinels going crazy by themselves. The worst thing I can remember the government did directly aganst mutants was to put them into a concentration camp after the M Day, but that was in an exceptional circumstances that could believably be seem as a way to protect them (and most of O*N*E seemed to believe that much).

About the edit. I was talking on general terms, not on specific examples. Some super heroes are offensive to fundamentalists, but all mutants are to them. I do wish we could see more how the religions of the world dealt with this stuff, though. Not only on a prejudice level, but in general. Like, is Norse paganism alive again in the Marvel Universe? What have the Pope said about the blatant cases of mysticism that goes around? The lack of talk about this is a tremenduous lost of potential, and would be so even without mutants around. Even if the Purifiers wasn't a thing in comics, the lack of acknowledgment there are gods and demons running around in the US is weird.

edited 11th Nov '14 8:21:15 AM by Heatth

Wackd Since: May, 2009

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