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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145651: Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:33:21 PM

Largely his only act of significance really, to be a meat shield for the gauntlet to work

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145652: Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:34:04 PM

Hulk literally brought half of everyone in the universe back by snapping the Infinity Gauntlet. It doesn't get much more significant than that.

Yes and no. It's obviously a huge deal storywise but it's not a visceral 'that's so cool, awesome to watch' memorable moment like him ragdolling Loki about in the first one.

eta: new page ,adding the quote.

Edited by dcutter2 on Aug 3rd 2022 at 8:34:46 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#145653: Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:43:32 PM

I remember being so sure a couple years ago that the third MCU Spider-Man film was going to be Spider-Island. I still think it would've been a great idea.

It could well be the fourth. After all, Spider-Island was a vehicle to unwrite the memory spell that No Way Home borrowed some of its inspiration from.

For non-comic reader context, the way Strange's memory spell worked in the comics was that it erased every person's memory of Peter Parker being Spider-Man and applied a magical barrier around that knowledge. Because of Strange's spell, people could not figure out for themselves that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, no matter what. Magic forbid anyone from ever making that connection.

The one and only way that Peter's identity could be revealed was if Peter himself revealed it. If he pulled off his mask and said, "I'm Peter Parker," for example. Or if he told someone who knew him as Peter straight-up, "I'm Spider-Man." Without him specifically making that leap, the deduction could simply not be made by other people. Magic would preserve his secret in perpetuity.

So, obviously, that fucking sucks because it defeats the main narrative purpose of a secret identity: to build drama around preserving the secret. If no one can ever learn his secret, then all kinds of stories about his secret can't be told. What's even the point? How do you build tension from "Oh no, what if they find out," when magic says they can't find out.

Spider-Island was the antidote to this parasitic writing decision. The Jackal (who still desperately needs a film debut) duplicated Spider-Man's abilities and created an epidemic of Spider-men. He infected the entire city of Manhattan and turning everyone into Spider-people, including many superheroes.

During this, Peter seized on the opportunity to take lead and help people by broadcasting himself on the news as one of the many people with spider-powers and rallying spider-folks to help solve the conflict. Long story short, Jackal was defeated and all was fine and dandy.

Right up until Dr. Strange strolled up and told Peter, "So. Uh. You just went on a live news broadcast and went, 'I'm Peter Parker and I'm Spider-Man.' It was very clever and no one will think that you're the actual Spider-Man. But you should know that for the purposes of the spell, that counts as you unmasking to the entire planet. All magical protections around your secret identity are kaput. Good luck with that."

As a One More Day adaptation, No Way Home left Peter with a different magical effect surrounding his identity. But if they do intend to ultimately re-person Peter Parker, it would be fitting for Spider-Island to be the way they do it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:45:09 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145654: Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:47:18 PM

[up] Wait my spider knowledge is not as good as I thought. One More Day involved Mephisto right? But also Strange did a memory spell as well?

Also Strange can't just reapply the spell if Pete wants?

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#145655: Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:50:46 PM

One More Day is kind of a story that basically deletes itself, so they needed something else to undo him revealing his identity in live tv. Hence, a Strange spell.

Wake me up at your own risk.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#145656: Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:52:00 PM

I've always thought they should be doing that whole run at each other thing and have Hulk stop short and do his thunderclap move, knocking over the front rank and giving the hero's change the advantage.

He only had one functional arm in that battle. Kinda hard to knock people over with the sound of one hand clapping.

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145657: Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:53:26 PM

[up] Yeah, that was a general thought about a cool Hulk action scene, not a specific thing they could have added to the actual Endgame film, I admit.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#145658: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:03:50 PM

One More Day is kind of a story that basically deletes itself, so they needed something else to undo him revealing his identity in live tv. Hence, a Strange spell.

This, yes. On paper, OMD did exactly one thing: It cosmically annulled Peter and MJ's marriage. All other events remained the same; Nothing throughout Spider-history changed except the terminology used to describe the relationship that the two characters had. Which is why Peter Parker has an intact secret identity, and Harry Osborn's alive!

...So, obviously, that's a headscratcher. "Absolutely nothing except the marriage has changed" and those two things don't exactly mesh. So it was later revealed that, offscreen after OMD, Peter went to Dr. Strange and had him perform a global memory spell that wiped all trace of his secret identity from the minds of everyone, everywhere.

There was also a later revealed "At some point offscreen" explanation for Harry's revival too.

Suffice it to say, OMD sucked and I have no idea why it was chosen for an MCU film adaptation, save for Kevin Feige inexplicably seeking to adapt the worst possible storylines to film. [lol] I look forward to the next Spider-Man trilogy being a long and complex adaptation of the Clone Saga.

Tom Holland pulling triple duty as Peter Parker, Ben Reilly, and Kaine. Which one's the real Spider-Man!? The answer may surprise you!

(Along with Ultimate Jessica Drew, played by Tom Holland in a wig.)

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:05:45 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145659: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:05:05 PM

At least the Clone Saga has some merit in the contribution of Ben Reilly and Kaine.

Which is more than you can say about OMD.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#145660: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:06:30 PM

OMD gave me lotus eater machine vibes for the Spidey comics and that's why I can never really follow the 616 Spidey for too long.

Like it felt so uncanny when I first read BND.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#145661: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:07:46 PM

And Kaine took a few years to be considered a plus, really.

Wake me up at your own risk.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#145662: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:09:41 PM

I'm legit going to be mad if Ben Reilly makes his live-action debut before Miles Morales does.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#145663: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:10:23 PM

[up][up][up][up]You joke, but there are some parts of the internet that would KILL for a movie that is just Tom Holland acting against himself in different character archetypes, especially one as a girl.

But I don't think we need Clone Saga, we already got Spider-Man acting against other Spider-Men in No Way Home.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:10:35 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145664: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:13:25 PM

The first Spidey comics I read where the reprints of clone saga in the Uk's Astonishing Spider-Man line. Specifically the last two parts of Revelations or something. Where Reilly's love interest Tyne goes back to jail and read through at least to the end of the Clone Saga, even as far as The Gathering Of Five before petering off

Anyway, tl;dr I do have an fondness for Ben Reilly because of that.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145665: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:15:29 PM

One of my first comics ever was actually the Kaine Scarlet Spider series in the early 2010s where he operated in Texas for a time.

Good stuff, it’s why I always have a fondness for Kaine as well and why it annoys me the recent Spider stuff has been completely ignoring him.

Which considering what’s happened to Ben then may be a blessing in disguise…….

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:17:23 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145666: Aug 3rd 2022 at 1:30:49 PM

There's also the ongoing Reed Richards Is Useless problem of having all these amazing scientific geniuses in the MCU but the rest of the world basically remaining at a modern status quo, save for the occasional demonic or alien invasion.

Hank Pym is the absolute worst in that regard in my opinion. Could you imagine how revolutionary the Pym Particles could be for construction, maintenance and transportation services for society?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#145667: Aug 3rd 2022 at 2:11:30 PM

He invented quick and useful portal technology but a villain hijacked it once so Hank totally abandoned it and then died and then super died.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#145668: Aug 3rd 2022 at 2:36:16 PM

There is no evidence of that in the MCU

Besides Bruce being suicidal and the "I'm always angry line" anyway. But both are vague.

Edited by Cortez on Aug 3rd 2022 at 5:49:56 AM

DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#145669: Aug 3rd 2022 at 3:39:10 PM

"awesome to watch' memorable moment like him ragdolling Loki about in the first one."

Beyond it being a funny scene, there is not much merit in beating such a physically weak villain.

I think the best Hulk scene in the first Avengers would be beating a leviathan with one punch.

Edited by DarthNoxIsCool on Aug 3rd 2022 at 3:41:04 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145670: Aug 3rd 2022 at 3:42:20 PM

What part of "it's awesome to watch" made you think I meant 'this has great merit'?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145671: Aug 3rd 2022 at 3:42:20 PM

I've seen the Hulkbuster scene brought up for properly depicting Hulk as the dreaded and his full destructive force.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#145672: Aug 3rd 2022 at 3:45:42 PM

[up]*2. My point is that beating up Loki is something any guy with super-strength could have done. (Even Loki had problems with the Captain America)

So the Hulk destroying a leviathan and fighting Thor are more impressive feats.

[up]Also, is awesome moment for the Hulkbuster, who is a jobber in the comics.

Edited by DarthNoxIsCool on Aug 3rd 2022 at 3:54:41 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145673: Aug 3rd 2022 at 4:05:23 PM

[up] i mean cool but it doesn't alter my point in anyway. Because it wasn't that it was an impressive feat in universe just a very memorable scene. The leviathan scene is another very good example though I agreee.


hulkbuster should lose. There's no point in having stark's armour be able to out do another heroes at their own wheelhouse.

I guess also it's partly because mcu hulk seems to lack 'the angriee hulk gets the stronger hulk gets' aspect.

Edited by dcutter2 on Aug 3rd 2022 at 12:08:02 PM

DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#145674: Aug 3rd 2022 at 4:07:31 PM

I do not understand this obsession of many fans that the Hulk should be invincible.

He lost to armor that was created to counter him, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#145675: Aug 3rd 2022 at 4:09:18 PM

I don't care what the fans say,he should be invisible invincible!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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