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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#145576: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:57:26 AM

So I've got a question. I've been trying to figure out if Helstrom is apart of the MCU. I done research, and it's accepted as apart of the MCU on both wikipedia and the MCU wikia, yet there is also Word of God saying that it is not in the MCU.

I know that it was supposed to be apart of Marvel Television's cancelled Adventure into Fear franchise, but when Marvel Television was folded into Marvel Studios, Everything either got cancelled or ended. So I just want to figure it out, mainly so I know whether or not to add the characters into the main MCU characters pages.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#145577: Aug 1st 2022 at 7:00:40 AM

The TV Tropes page says that it is considered to be separate from the MCU by the show's creator, so I feel like it should remain its own thing.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Aug 1st 2022 at 10:04:17 AM

The legend has returned.
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#145578: Aug 1st 2022 at 7:17:21 AM

Yeah but both wikipedia and the MCU wikia consider it officially apart of the MCU. The only thing pushing it in the non-canon sense is Word of God, not an official statement by Marvel Studios.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#145579: Aug 1st 2022 at 7:31:59 AM

Word of God is an official statement. If it were Word of Dante from just one of the actors, that would be suspect, but I'd expect the showrunner to have just as much authority/knowledge on how it connects as the main studio. That this was clarified the very day of release, combined with the main star doubling down a few days later, makes it pretty clear cut to me.

I generally rely on the main Marvel wiki for continuity issues. They're pretty on the ball with regards to that, whereas the MCU wiki gets hung up on all sorts of unimportant minor details—outside the recent "MCU!Marc Spector was part of the Marines because that was his comic origin" thing, I once saw them successfully argue for using an actor's beard hair growth to accurately map out a timeline, which pretty much killed any credibility it had for me.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#145580: Aug 1st 2022 at 7:35:06 AM

MCU Wiki also keeps insisting that Baby Groot is the same as the original Groot.....despite Word of God saying the contrary.

Edited by Forenperser on Aug 1st 2022 at 4:35:21 PM

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MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145581: Aug 1st 2022 at 8:55:53 AM

Random off topic goofy idea. Can we put The One With… short descriptions in front of each MCU installment's main page like we have for each James Bond film? It'd be kinda funny to see what people come up with.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Aug 1st 2022 at 8:56:12 AM

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145582: Aug 1st 2022 at 8:57:26 AM

I'd rather not. That sort of thing may sound fun on paper but it almost always gets out of hand.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145583: Aug 1st 2022 at 8:59:47 AM

Aww. No fun to be had it seems...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#145584: Aug 1st 2022 at 9:13:39 AM

Well tbh my credibility for it comes more from wikipedia then anything else, as seen here. The MCU wikia usually like it was said is more for continuity and in depth things. Wikipedia tends to skew towards straight facts.

Also regarding the one with suggestion, can't it just be its own page? like the laconic pages? unless I'm misunderstanding how laconic works.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#145585: Aug 1st 2022 at 9:39:40 AM

Wikipedia appears to be citing Helstrom as a stand-alone story in the franchise based off earlier comments on it being “siloed off,” which doesn’t really acknowledge the later Looper interviews where they clarify it’s completely its own thing. Like, they still cite one of them secondhand, but as a continuation of the “siloed off” statement. Feels like a big mistake, and I know one of the MCU wiki mods who is super-insistent on all the shows being canon has a Wikipedia account, so I wouldn’t put much stock in it.

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#145586: Aug 1st 2022 at 9:50:25 AM

Well I would take more stock in an official statement from Marvel Studios vs a one-off interview from the director. But since we're going back and forth I wanted someone to weigh in as a tie-breaker. Directors say stuff all the time that gets disregarded by later projects by the big studios. Right now I'm still trying to figure out if I Am Groot is sacred timeline or multiversal series. James Gunn says its set on Earth-314 but Marvel Studios says its main continuity.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#145587: Aug 1st 2022 at 9:54:16 AM

Well, on the flipside of that, do we have anything from Marvel Studios saying that Helstrom is MCU? Because if the showunner/director says "no" and Marvel basically says "abstain", that seems like a no.

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#145588: Aug 1st 2022 at 9:56:23 AM

It was clearly intended to be part of the MCU, but something appears to have changed as the non-Disney+ shows got phased out. The showrunner’s statement on the day of release is the most up to date information we have, and as you said Marvel Studios itself hasn’t really commented since then.

Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Aug 1st 2022 at 12:57:41 PM

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#145589: Aug 1st 2022 at 10:03:53 AM

Well I guess that's the case then. I'm not sure how to feel about that. But I never saw the show so I guess it doesn't really matter. I swear I wish Marvel would put out an official list for all MCU content. Someone is going to have to update the MCU wikia and wikipedia sections, but I'm not gonna do it.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#145590: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:56:44 PM

The Baby Groot situation is awkward, because he sprouted from some twigs that were supercharged by the Power Gem. So the question of what, exactly, he is is a bit confusing, especially since we know absolutely nothing about floral colossus reproduction.

It seems unlikely that they typically reproduce by breaking off parts of themselves and then using an Infinity Gem to supercharge those parts until they sprout into a new being. So Baby Groot probably isn't, like, Groot's child. But he certainly doesn't behave like Groot. He acts like a brand new being brought into existence. So this isn't a resurrection situation either.

I think the closest reasonable assessment of Baby Groot is something like a clone. The Power Gem allowed for a copy of Groot to grow from those twigs, but this copy does not have continuity of consciousness from the original Groot. For all intents and purposes, he is a new lifeform that happens to be identical to a previously existing lifeform.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 1st 2022 at 6:57:08 AM

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145591: Aug 1st 2022 at 7:18:26 PM

Groot wasn't super-charged by the Power Stone. It seems like just planting a twig after a Flora Colossus dies is enough to start growing a new Flora Colossus.

Edited by M84 on Aug 1st 2022 at 10:19:49 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#145592: Aug 1st 2022 at 8:40:52 PM

The only hint that Groot Jr was Groot Sr reborn was a deleted scene where Groot Sr is seen dancing by Drax and learns Drax doesn’t like that, hence why Baby Groot freezes when Drax sees him dancing. Groot reincarnating from a single twig is also how it works in the comics. But they turned out the writers went with something different here.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 1st 2022 at 8:41:14 AM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#145593: Aug 1st 2022 at 8:57:55 PM

I looked into it to see if Gunn ever answered this, and it turns out he said MCU Baby Groot isn't the original reincarnated.

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AdeptGaderius Otaku from the Anime World Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#145595: Aug 1st 2022 at 9:41:23 PM

You could argue pretty successfully it already had one: Endgame. The issue is figure out what comes after that.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#145596: Aug 1st 2022 at 10:04:25 PM

None. The MCU seeks to ape the comics, and the comics are built on being eternal, never-ending. There's no "logical endpoint" for a eternal universe because it just wraps back around like a moebius strip.

If you're judging in terms of Serial Escalation, though, I think the 2015 Secret Wars is the highest level of stakes Marvel has reached in any of these events considering it deals with the entire multiverse being on the firing line.

People (me included) have argued since forever is that it's silly to keep chasing ever higher stakes and that the MCU should just acclimatize to lower-scale stories. But if the trend is "keep going until you reach maximum stakes" I think the 2015 Secret Wars event is the highest stakes you're possibly getting and thus they should stop there if they have no plans to diversify stakes.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145597: Aug 1st 2022 at 10:13:04 PM

The logical thing to is just focus on different conflicts with different characters.

You could just do an epic saga of Moon Knight that doesn’t intersect with the wider conflicts of the MCU

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145598: Aug 1st 2022 at 10:20:59 PM

At some point, Marvel will basically become the Disney Channel for random superheroes getting their own shows. Most of them will suck. Some of them might be neat. But they won't all intersect like before.

Soon, serialized storytelling in the MCU's style will be a thing of the past. And we will all look wistfully back on the glory days, but know deep down that its ultimate defeat was the right thing to happen.

And at long last, a new genre of film will come along for Film Twitter to complain about ruining cinema.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#145600: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:40:20 AM

Bruce got hurt pretty bad by the odd situation of his first MCU movie blowing past Bruce's backstory in response to the preceding film, followed by Disney not wanting to make any movies specifically about him due to the distribution issue with Universal.

He's not the only one, though. A surprising amount of the MCU's heroes are basically cyphers preceding their introduction. But until Jen, Bruce also barely had anyone who knew him personally (seeing as Betty's been written out the series for - like - ever) which makes his more obvious. To compare, we know basically nothing about T'Chala pre-Civil War, but the fact that we know his family and can infer so much off of their relationships does the work a backstory would instead.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:40:39 AM


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