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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145551: Jul 31st 2022 at 5:32:34 PM

If I had to do armchair psychoanalysis of Peter's behavior, it's that of someone who is starved for positive attention and unable to have normal relationships.

What Peter seems starved for in particular is affection from a father figure. Ever since losing his own parents and later Uncle Ben he hasn't had a single decent father figure. Aunt May was there for him to be the maternal figure he needed thankfully.

That's why several of his more notable enemies are twisted takes on father figures in a lot of media such as Norman Osborne. It's also why he latched on to Tony Stark for a while.

Edited by M84 on Jul 31st 2022 at 8:33:05 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#145552: Jul 31st 2022 at 5:35:47 PM

Peter: "I'm going to latch onto you as a father figure"

Tony: "Cool! I have no healthy framework for how dads work so hopefully I can be that for you from miles away and with infrequent conversations"

Peter: "..."

Tony: "That's how my dad did it"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145553: Jul 31st 2022 at 5:42:25 PM

Next thing you know Peter will decide Dr. Strange will be his new dad.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#145554: Jul 31st 2022 at 5:43:05 PM

With how dominate the MCU's style has been across Marvel, does anyone else kinda hope that they might one day do a project that's a full on pastiche of the silver age like this?

Edited by Avenger09 on Jul 31st 2022 at 1:47:24 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145555: Jul 31st 2022 at 5:50:55 PM

I would say the last Spider-Man projects have been a bit too crossoverish for its own good.

And not even in a Batman The Brave and The Bold way which did it masterfully, stuff like Marvel's Spider-Man where it was too obsessed with constant nonstop guest stars and forcing Spidey to be in a "team" at the expense of the character.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#145556: Jul 31st 2022 at 6:00:18 PM

Spider-Man is also one of the most crossingoverish guys in Marvel and the MCU pins a lot of its appeal on the potential of it happening.

Seriously. Spider-Man was Wolverine before Wolverine. There have been multiple comic series whose entire premise is "XYZ character teams up with Spider-Man, specifically." This issue, Spider-Man and Hawkeye team up. Next issue, Spider-Man meets the Power Pack. Issue after that, Spider-Man and Jean Grey go on an adventure!

There is no character in the entire Marvel Universe who gets around as much as Spidey. Sticking his nose into everything that's happening, everywhere, is his whole shtick.

Even in his own comic, do you know how long it took Spidey to cross over with another character? Amazing Spider-Man #1 (1962). Spider-Man tries to join the Fantastic Four in the very first issue of his very first series ever printed.

This is a core facet of Spider-Man. He is the #1 Marvel Crossover Guy.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 31st 2022 at 6:01:52 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#145557: Jul 31st 2022 at 6:15:40 PM

Of course, the thing about those teamups is they're one-and-dones. Spidey will cross paths with other heroes, and they'll work together to stop whatever villain they're both chasing, but it doesn't result in a lasting partnership. For a long while, it was a recurring joke that any attempt Spider-Man made to join the Avengers would go disastrously.

I think the internal logic is that, while Spidey's constant quipping is amusing for us, for the people who actually have to interact with him, it's annoying as hell. Sort of the same reaction Deadpool gets.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145558: Jul 31st 2022 at 7:20:31 PM

The various Marvel superheroes also don't like playing poker with Spidey too often either. His Spider Sense gives him a bit of an unfair advantage.

It's actually kind of interesting to note that a lot of what Spidey did as a superhero was more or less on autopilot — his Spider Sense did a lot of the work for him. Which is why Venom always gave him a hard time — the Symbiote doesn't trigger his Spider Sense due to its initial bonding with him.

Edited by M84 on Jul 31st 2022 at 10:22:38 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#145559: Jul 31st 2022 at 7:42:17 PM

For me, at least, Spiderman was essentially the "Mascot" of The Marvel universe, so that makes sense.

Leviticus 19:34
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#145560: Jul 31st 2022 at 8:18:55 PM

Avenger 09: Freedom Force technically zig-zags aesthetically between Golden and Silver Age. Marvel did a delightful Golden Age Genre Throwback of sorts in Captain America - The First Avenger. Personally I'd really enjoy if the Fantastic Four film really took after Silver Age aesthetics. In many ways the Fantastic Four do really make a incredible representative of that period of comics with their focus on pscychedellic cosmic shenanigans.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#145561: Jul 31st 2022 at 8:47:03 PM

I think the internal logic is that, while Spidey's constant quipping is amusing for us, for the people who actually have to interact with him, it's annoying as hell. Sort of the same reaction Deadpool gets.

Pretty much, yes. Readers find Spider-Man hilarious and delightful, and can relate to him easily because they see his internal struggle. But in-universe, other characters typically find him obnoxious and also a bit creepy. This is a guy who creepy-crawls along the ceiling, looks down at you to make a bad pun, then slinks away into an air vent - When he's not spraying his goo everywhere. He's kind of unnerving to be around.

Also he takes his secret identity deathly serious and often won't even unmask around other superheroes. Even when he joined the Avengers, there was a point where they couldn't cut him his paycheck because they can't write checks to "Spider-Man". So that creeps people out too.

These are all facets of his character we haven't really gotten to see before the MCU, since he had to exist in a vacuum far away from other supers. And now that he's in the MCU, we still haven't gotten to see it because the whole Tony Stark Jr. thing got in the way.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 31st 2022 at 8:52:24 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145562: Jul 31st 2022 at 9:11:52 PM

[up]And he also cheats at cards. No, that wasn't a joke on my part. That's actually a thing in the comics.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145563: Jul 31st 2022 at 9:16:42 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] The last 2 cartoons were all about giving him a team.

Ultimate Spider-Man started out with him being a member and roommates with Nova, Luke Cage, Ironfist, and White Tiger. Later on he became leader to another group of characters like Cloak and Dagger and spider subsidiaries like Agent Venom and Steel Spider.

The next cartoon did the same thing, with Peter being apart of a team of spider characters including Miles, Gwen, and Anya.

It's pretty evident what they want for him there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145564: Jul 31st 2022 at 10:34:01 PM

One of the guys I follow on Twitter jokingly complained that he was disappointed that the Secret Wars adaptation the MCU is doing likely won't be the one where Spider-Man has to teach a god how to poop.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 31st 2022 at 10:34:26 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#145565: Aug 1st 2022 at 12:01:38 AM

Iirc in JLA/Avengers WW also points out that the full face mask kinda makes Spidey creepier than your usual masked crusader. tongue

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145566: Aug 1st 2022 at 12:45:34 AM

Even Batman's mask shows his chin and mouth.

Tellingly, Batman's own Anti-Hero Substitute Jean Paul Valley's costume had a full face mask. And it was creepy as hell.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145567: Aug 1st 2022 at 12:49:32 AM

Batman Beyond also has a full face mask though

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145568: Aug 1st 2022 at 1:21:22 AM

Though his mask does at least show his mouth. Jean Paul Valley's otoh did not.

Edited by M84 on Aug 1st 2022 at 4:22:10 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#145569: Aug 1st 2022 at 1:30:21 AM

Though the way the eyes on Spider-Man's mask change expressions, it's kind of like he has those giant, hyper-expressive anime eyes.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145570: Aug 1st 2022 at 1:37:35 AM

Though the Beyond suit has that issue of being a skin-tight mask over his face. Like it looks fine in a simplified 2D plane but the Arkham games had a realistic detailed depiction of the suit and it looked really off.

Also a thought I just had on the topic of Peter's friends. I think that while of course Ned and MJ shouldn't be removed, at the same time Peter should be allowed to form relationships with new people.

Like say he gets a job at Horizon Labs, he has to interact with people there. He develops a new mentor relationship with Max Modell and a rapport with any co-worker who happens to share similar ideals in science. Someone noted before that both Peter 1 and Peter 2 barely ever talked to more than a handful of people in their lives so yeah maybe Peter 3 should be allowed to associate with more than just 2 people at all times.

Its not like Peter hasn't previously had work friends and personal friends before.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 1st 2022 at 1:40:09 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#145571: Aug 1st 2022 at 2:05:28 AM

With Spidey, I actually prefer the mask not being expressive.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145572: Aug 1st 2022 at 5:09:44 AM

The expressiveness or lack thereof of Spider-Man's mask never occurred to me as a reason why other superheroes might find him difficult to work with. In fact, that seems borderline weird, especially since Tony also has a full-face helmet. Peter takes his mask off when he's off-duty, anyway.

The cheating at cards thing I'll grant you, although in the modern era superheroes would have to be pretty bored in general to resort to poker games to pass the time. I'd say the quippiness and inappropriate sense of when to mouth off in a fight might be a deal-breaker, but in the MCU that's literally every character.

The comics can take more time to establish why Spidey isn't set up to be a team player, but the MCU doesn't seem to have done that. In fact, Peter has been aces every time he's teamed up. The only critical problem I can see is that most of the Avengers have lives outside of Avenging (Avengering?), and he has friends and school to deal with, aka the inherent problem with being a teenage superhero.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 1st 2022 at 8:11:20 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145573: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:30:26 AM

There are all sorts of issues with them placing a minor in the path of danger like that as well.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145574: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:33:12 AM

Well, sure, but Tony "War Crimes" Stark seemed unconcerned about it during Captain America: Civil War, so...

Maybe what the MCU needs is some sort of school, or academy, where enhanced children can go to be trained in the responsible use of their powers. Hmm...

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 1st 2022 at 9:34:40 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#145575: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:45:26 AM

Some kind of…. Avengers Academy

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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