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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Very rarely is "everyone" everyone. Just the people who don't like what is currently happening are often the loudest.
I've never seen much complaining about MJ or Ned as his supporting cast, mostly just one Tony/Happy's prominence and the amount of resources they give Pete.
Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 31st 2022 at 8:07:07 PM
Yeah, I have seen a lot of criticism that the Spider-Man movies need to stop relying so heavily on guest characters - especially Tony Stark. But the only criticisms I've seen of Zendaya's MJ were people upset that she "isn't a redhead"; A criticism that I'm pretty sure is just a race-lifting complaint wearing the Trenchcoat of Deniability.
Ned has been criticized for being Miles Morales's best friend Ganke Lee in all but name, swiped from him to give to Peter. He has absolutely nothing to do with Ned Leeds and it feels disingenuous to name him that, as if we can't all see what they did here.
But I don't think I've seen many arguments that the Spider-Man movies need to dump Ned, MJ, and Aunt May. These are not the characters that people are talking about when they complain about reference bloat.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 31st 2022 at 11:41:30 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I actually am intrigued by the "MJ gets the symbiote" idea that someone floated. Since the symbiotes consciousness are connected, that could be a way for her to remember Peter. And the symbiote could use that to propel her anger.
..Actually, I'm not so sure, that seems like it would be really easy for writers to fumble character motivation like that.
My issue with Peter's supporting cast is more just I find the extra students annoying.
Like a big aspect of the first 2 films is the emphasis how Peter is apart of a magnet school but all that amounted to is him being surrounded by a bunch of extras. Also a case of Disney's performative representation as the marketing would routinely brag about how diverse the students are only to do next to nothing with them in the actual film proper.
FFH was pretty bad about it as Peter was stuck an a whole field trip with a bunch of classmates and it didn't do much to develop any of them in any interesting ways aside from that guy who was Peter's romantic rival and that girl who dated Ned for the trip, both very shallow characters.
Its why I find NWH a vast improvement in this regard for completely jettisoning the extra fluff.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 31st 2022 at 11:53:38 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I disagree. Sure, it might not be to the extent that Jessica Jones seemingly went to (I haven't watched the show yet, so I can't judge), but I thought that seeing Thor fall to such a low, and having to bring himself back to who he was through talking to someone is very important, and the fact that he still tries to do the right thing despite being horribly out of shape helps in that regard.
I do agree that playing some of the humor up did get a little frustrating, but overall I felt I was looking at those moments more from a sympathetic point of view, since it felt less about the humor and more to show off how pitiful Thor became in those five years.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."I don't know maybe have him befriend Hobbie Brown or Cindy Moon, I think the latter was confirmed to be a student at the school.
Not saying set em up to be Prowler and Silk for a future movie but maybe have Peter develop some friendships or interactions beyond the only 2 people he associates on a regular basis.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."So what I hear is that Peter has too many friends and not enough friends, and those friends get too much and too little attention from the story. Got it. Nice to know fans are as consistent as always.
Pencil me in as firmly in the "not what I care about" camp: I love Peter's relationships but I'm most invested in him and his happiness, and when that keeps getting yanked away I feel let down. I'm willing to accept that he's going to get beat down by the universe because that's how Spider-Man works, but he needs to be able to achieve some lasting victories from time to time or I'm going to get bored and stop caring.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 31st 2022 at 3:24:29 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm personally on the side of Peter having more friends (particularly in this huge, sprawling universe), I just thought it was strange that I saw a lot of complaints about how Peter always had help from people versus always going it alone, only for new complaints to arise about how Peter no longer has anyone to interact with now that he doesn't have it anymore.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."I'm ok with Peter having a lot of friends.
He's worked with so many heroes. He's got connections to the FF, the Avengers, the X-men, the New Warriors, has probably been a Defender (because damn near everybody from before maybe the late 2000s has been one), and is one of the more prominent Street Level heroes.
Now, if you're talking non-hero friends, he's gone back on forth on that. A lot of them have a tendency to die, and the ones who don't, he gets his marriage to them retconned.
Spider-Man is what I call a Moral Hero*. He's someone who wins by being a fundamentally good person rather than by punching people until they stop moving. Therefore, the stories he's in will always challenge his morality in some way, such as by forcing him to struggle with the necessity of killing, having him rely too much on technology over his abilities, lean on a patron of dubious ethics, and so on.
Part of being a moral hero is learning when to rely on the people close to you. If the lesson that the universe tries to teach him is that you should never trust your friends and family because they're going to get killed if you do, that undermines the message that Peter is part of his community. It tells him that he should go it alone, struggling eternally against the darkness with no hope of surcease or reward, and that gets very bleak very fast.
Put simply, I don't like bleak Spidey. I like hopeful Spidey.
* Other categories include the Power Hero, who overpowers the opposition; the Science Hero, who uses tech to address problems; and the Guile Hero, who outsmarts and outthinks their opponents. These categories can overlap to some extent, but we can classify Hulk and Thor as Power Heroes, Tony Stark as a Science Hero, and Steven Strange as a Guile Hero.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 31st 2022 at 3:39:09 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I have said before and I will say it again. I dislike the way they ended No Way Home. I liked that Peter had more friends here because it was a nice change of pace and just getting rid some of the best romance and bromance dynamics from the MCU is not fixing the problem of him having to much resources due to Stark. There are a million better ways to get rid of that problem with out getting rid of his supporting cast.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadget back to Spider-Man as a working class hero instead of a billionaire’s trust fund kid.
That I can accept, but it comes at the cost of his friends and family, which is... not really worth it.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@mathewwayne: It's only weird if it's the same people decrying him with friends and without friends and even then it's fair to critique the execution of something you wanted.
Eta: as to the comics they tried to divorce/separate them in jms run before going cosmic retcon on it. They even killed off MJ in I think John Burne's reboot, blowing up the plane she was on but eventually undid it by fan demand.
Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 31st 2022 at 8:43:28 PM

*stares at Fat Thor from Endgame*
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."