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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#145401: Jul 29th 2022 at 3:12:26 PM

A lot of his most dangerous scemes tend to revolve around him stealing the powers of some cosmic being for himself, like the Silver Surfer.

Edit: Pagetopper, I'm talking about Doom here.

Edited by uncertanSearcher on Jul 29th 2022 at 12:13:25 PM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#145402: Jul 29th 2022 at 3:55:48 PM

Doom should never feel like "just" a guy in a suit of armor not as cool as Iron Man's or "just" a sorcerer not as cool as Dr. Strange.

Stripped of all of that, Doom should come out on top in a fight between him and either of them. He should feel like a dangerous man. Zemo and Killmonger are probably the closest MCU comparisons I would make. They both have the long-term planning and single-minded drive that Doom should have. I'm not gonna list all his physical feats (there's a wiki for that), but Doom should be able to beat just about any non-powered Avenger in a fight.

Of course, Doom should act like he's above base physical violence-while totally not being above it at all.

uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#145403: Jul 29th 2022 at 4:05:23 PM

I could see Dooms big strength being his versitality, like his suit might be less advanced then Iron Mans and his magic weaker then Doctor Strange but with both at the same time he could still be totally capable to outmaneuver eather of them.

Edited by uncertanSearcher on Jul 29th 2022 at 1:05:41 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#145404: Jul 29th 2022 at 4:07:45 PM

I think the next one also introduced an Aunt May Spider-Woman

Aka, Spider-Ma'am.cool

[up]Edit: That's more or less what he's got.

Reed is only a little smarter than him, he's the second best sorcerer on the planet after Strange, and I actually think his armour is a little better than Tony's (they once had a throw down where they matched each other move for move, and the fight came down to who's battery laster longer. Doom won that.]]

Considering Doom's armour is probably a little bit Magi Tech as well, I can buy that.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jul 29th 2022 at 4:09:44 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#145405: Jul 29th 2022 at 4:08:21 PM

Just as long as they don't make Doom like a human Thanos I'll be satisfied

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145406: Jul 29th 2022 at 4:13:28 PM

Doom is basically a Master of All.

While the heroes like Reed edge him out in singular qualities, his mastery and generalist of all aspects of science and technology makes him an unequal threat.

Plus it gives him a lot of variety in methods. He's not just a science guy or magic guy.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#145407: Jul 29th 2022 at 5:25:12 PM

"Doom's doctorate is in Latverian Studies. Doom is very proud of his heritage."

fanman "To watch it all burn." from Earth-Prime/Earth-1218 Since: Feb, 2022 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
"To watch it all burn."
#145408: Jul 29th 2022 at 7:12:18 PM

Doom is a master of Badass Boasts. I saw this on Reddit, taking place during Secret Wars: https://preview.redd.it/htgicxicwcc31.jpg?auto=webp&s=0c34b0ea388da6932512cfdab500e55979e6c5de

Just imagine hearing that line on screen.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#145409: Jul 29th 2022 at 7:16:57 PM

I know Captain Steve fights Doom his fair share. But did they ever just words words words at each other?

Doom is the master of the badass boast and Cap is the champion of stirring speeches.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
SAwatching from south africa Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#145410: Jul 30th 2022 at 2:04:26 AM

Sorry to bring this back to VFX but on Twitter, there is a conversation from a group of Veterans VFX artists who described working at Marvel as both their worst and best experiences. The issues with VFX have been around for a long time but because Marvel is now big so it's clickbait for critics, professional or otherwise. Link below:

https://twitter.com/TaranStingVFX1/status/1553197830780571648

[up] For Doctor Doom I would like to see a powerset similar to his in Iron Man: Armoured Adventures, he created giant energy hands from portals.

Sincerely S Awatching.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#145411: Jul 30th 2022 at 2:59:04 AM

Again I'm reminded of the "Nintendo mistreating contractors" fiasco from a while back. People were initially treating it as a huge expose of Nintendo being a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing in a manner similar to the Ubisoft/Blizzard exposes.

While the first claim in that sentence is not entirely untrue, the way people talked about it fell into the whole "bad apples" fallacy where many assumed that if the one big bad company is taken down, it would magically lead to a net improvement in working conditions everywhere, when the problem is in fact a universal one, and it's less that Nintendo/Marvel are uniquely horrific and more that they are par for the course throughout the industry, but due to said companies owning a larger share of the market, they are both a more likely place for such stories to occur from a basic statistical standpoint, including some of the more extreme cases of abuse, and also less likely to be a nucleus for positive change due to their success.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 30th 2022 at 8:20:49 AM

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#145412: Jul 30th 2022 at 3:30:50 AM

Marvel is easy to pick on for critics for cgi, writing, "wokeness sjw pandering hating men", etc.

Just Makima.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145413: Jul 30th 2022 at 3:46:33 AM

The biggest successes makes for the easiest targets as they say

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#145414: Jul 30th 2022 at 3:52:54 AM

I think it's absolutely fair to criticize Marvel for those things, particularly since they're so successful that it's particularly pathetic they continue to lowball their staff in such a manner, but again it's irritating to see people talk as if they are one of the only ones who treat their staff that badly, in effect erasing all the other numerous instances of abuse in the industry that don't come from an easy punching bag.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145415: Jul 30th 2022 at 4:06:36 AM

I'm reminded of how CG heavy the Bayformers movies are, to the point a render of Deveststor in TF 2 apparently melted down a computer.

Can only imagine how strenuous it was making those movies.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#145416: Jul 30th 2022 at 4:09:19 AM

[up]That's why you don't depend on a single machine and have a collection of computers doing it collectively as a part of a render farm

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145417: Jul 30th 2022 at 4:56:33 AM

Doom absolutely should have his magic - it should be like fighting Tony, Strange, and Rocket (with the traps and ludicrously powerful and flashy armaments) at the same time if all of them were at the absolute top of their game. The kind of guy who has an answer for everything and is Batman levels of prepared, to the point where you wonder if he isn't actually clairvoyant.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#145418: Jul 30th 2022 at 4:59:00 AM

Doctor Doom would have an actual working crystal ball because he would actually build one

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145419: Jul 30th 2022 at 5:27:39 AM

[up]Doom having legit magitek at his disposal would be a great addition to his character. It would only make sense for him, as he's a master of both and he's the kind of person who would combine them if he saw a good use for it.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145420: Jul 30th 2022 at 6:01:59 AM

What makes Marvel a "target" in the concerns about treatment of VFX artists is that it actually has the market power to do something about the overall treatment of those artists in the industry. It could, if it chose, give its own contracted artists better working conditions, and in doing so create a precedent large enough to make others follow suit.

It would reap the benefits of this by attracting better artists and getting results faster.

Failing to act when you're just a nameless part of the system is not reprehensible; it's just how things work. Failing to act when you are a dominant player in that system is reprehensible.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#145421: Jul 30th 2022 at 3:38:45 PM

"Doom should never feel like "just" a guy in a suit of armor not as cool as Iron Man's or "just" a sorcerer not as cool as Dr. Strange."

After of thinking. In fact I don't see anything wrong with Doom being a Jack of All Trades

I'd rather Doom was weaker than Doctor Strange magically, even if he can beat him with tech.

Our former Supreme Sorcerer would lose a lot of reputation, if out of nowhere too many magic users who are stronger than him start appearing.

—-

Personally I think magical beings that are stronger than Doctor Strange should be limited to cosmic beings, other sorcerers supreme and possibly the scarlet witch.

Edited by DarthNoxIsCool on Jul 30th 2022 at 3:52:04 AM

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145422: Jul 30th 2022 at 4:47:42 PM

I think the best way to do it is to have his tech not be quite as good as Tony's, and his magic not quite as good as Strange, but they're close enough AND he absolutely does not play games when he has to throw down. Despite all of his bluster, Doom is brutally efficient.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145423: Jul 30th 2022 at 4:55:34 PM

Ha man its funny looking back and remembering that MJ actually left a guy at the alter to be with Peter at the end of Spider-Man 2

Wait does JJ know that the woman who left his son at the alter did it to date his photographer?

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 30th 2022 at 4:56:01 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#145424: Jul 30th 2022 at 5:33:23 PM

And she casually passes by Frank Castle on her way.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#145425: Jul 30th 2022 at 6:05:18 PM

I rewatched Spider-Man 2 last year as part of a marathon of watching all the Spider-Man films before No Way Home came out, and it struck how little MJ's boyfriend/fiancé being John Jameson factored into the film.

Like the fact that Peter's love interest is dating his boss' son never comes up as a plot point or character beat.

Hell Jonah and John, despite being father and son, never actually interact at all in the movie.

When I was 10/11 and first saw the film, I had assumed that John was being introduced in the film to set up the symbiote plotline for Spider-Man 3 (since Spider-Man: The Animated Series had him be the one to accidentally bring the symbiote to earth).

But now knowing that Raimi hated Venom and no intention of doing the symbiote plotline if it weren't for Executive Meddling... and when he did do the storyline he bypassed John entirely in favor of having the symbiote arriving to earth via the world's quietest meteor... John Jameson's presence in the film just comes across as arbitrary and random.


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