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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#145326: Jul 28th 2022 at 8:58:19 AM

I think I'd like it if Doom responded with a completely unfazed deadpan Never Heard That One Before reaction and then killed the mook making the joke.

Both because it's funny and because it fits with Doom's character - Like on one hand he has a certain dignity and shouldn't be portrayed as ranting and raving at minor slights. However, Doom is still the pettiest man alive, despite not always externally reacting to slights.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#145327: Jul 28th 2022 at 9:05:24 AM

I guess it operates on a spectrum. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever is probably going to be using that serious tone, while Guardians of the Galaxy: Vol 3 will be comedic. I'd expect Captain America: New World Order to also be more serious.

I think Wakanda Forever's tone will likely depend heavily on who they tap as the new central protagonist.

Like. If the movie's about Okoye, it's probably going to be pretty serious. If it's about Meme-Lover Shuri, I'd expect a very upbeat and light-hearted tone. M'baku or Nakia would probably fall somewhere in the middle, with Nakia leaning towards more serious and M'Baku leaning towards sillier.

M'Baku, incidentally, is a great example of a ridiculous character presented with complete sincerity. I don't think the first Black Panther movie would have been the same if characters were stopping every fifteen minutes to go, "LOL, really? Gorillas? Okay man, you do you." "Am I allowed to monkey-hoot back at him or is that racist?"

At no point did the first Black Panther film ever stop to apologize to the audience for the material it was working with. Even when it was the fucking Man-Ape.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 28th 2022 at 9:10:34 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#145328: Jul 28th 2022 at 9:11:12 AM

M’Baku works because he comes across as a completely serious guy but when he’s not being antagonistic, he’s a goof

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145329: Jul 28th 2022 at 9:27:07 AM

[up][up] I'm not saying that Black Panther is deadpan from start to finish: it's not, but the jokes are substantially toned down, and I don't expect Wakanda Forever to deviate tremendously from that tone. Heck, at least half of the teaser is devoted to T'Challa's funeral, about the least fun one could expect to have.

There is no singular "Marvel tone". It's very much dependent on the director and the property.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#145330: Jul 28th 2022 at 9:29:44 AM

I'd like to note that the Marvel comics have been making wisecracks about some of the goofier stuff in them since their origins.

Even back in the 60's, the Trapster chose his name because he was tired of no one taking him seriously when he went by "Paste Pot Pete".

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145331: Jul 28th 2022 at 9:30:00 AM

It helps that M'Baku has a lot of archetypal Monkey King traits, especially personality-wise. He's not a dumb berserker, he's a prideful trickster who likes to fuck with people.

Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#145332: Jul 28th 2022 at 9:39:09 AM

Personally I think the irrelevant humour has become something of an artifact from the MCU's early pre-Avengers days, specifically the Iron-Man films, when everything was still being eased in for the general public, (or become they were trying to head off online jokes) and its prevalence has overstayed its welcome.

Its probably only stuck around because some writers are trying to, or feel obliged to, emulate that early formula.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#145333: Jul 28th 2022 at 9:41:18 AM

Probably a little late to this discussion, but I'm totally ok with someone trying to mock Doom, him kicking their asses in the worst way possible, and basically making it so that everyone loses any and all desire to try and mock him, even if he's not in the room.

Like, if it ends with him putting his foot on a dudes head, while not even acknowledging it and continuing to doom it up, that would be perfect. It would both show he's a different kind of dude from the previous villains, establish his threat level, and show that pettiness Doom is known for.

One Strip! One Strip!
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145334: Jul 28th 2022 at 9:57:24 AM

Not even that direct. Doom zapping a dude and reducing them to carbon without even pausing his monologue, let alone commenting on what he just did.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145335: Jul 28th 2022 at 10:01:56 AM

Here's the thing: Doom is by all accounts one of the hammiest villains in all of Marvel. His MCU appearance, should it come, really should lean into that as hard as possible. He's not just powerful, he's grandiose. It doesn't make sense to complain about the MCU's "quippiness" and then demand a faithful portrayal of one of the most bombastic supervillains ever to grace a comic page.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145336: Jul 28th 2022 at 10:04:05 AM

Yeah, it's important to emphasize all of Doom's most recognizable qualities early on: his hamminess, his grandiosity, his ruthlessness, his pragmatism, and his pettiness. Subtle Doom is not Doom period.

Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#145337: Jul 28th 2022 at 10:15:05 AM

That is one of the most endearing parts of his character.

I mentioned before how Doom might work in the MCU, where he actually respects the Fantastic Four and his animosity towards them comes from their refusal to see things his way.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13125974270A57100500&page=5761#comment-144002

Edited by Avenger09 on Jul 28th 2022 at 6:31:10 PM

filmstarscarlet from USA Since: Jul, 2022
#145338: Jul 28th 2022 at 11:11:47 AM

About lampshading the sillier aspects of the films like superhero names- something that always amused me was how the Russos would go on and on about how their approach to Marvel was to "ground" it, and I guess one can make that argument.

One one hand the Captain America films and their two Avengers films are more serious and emotionally resonant than most MCU films but that's about where the grounding stops. Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame are some of the most comic booky CB Ms out there, unashamed of being films based on Marvel Comics and the way they do the characters brings them closer to their classic 616 counterparts than other MCU films.

Yet the characters use their superhero names, they spend a good chunk of Russo films in their costumes, the dialogue feels like a movie. The Russos' films are my favorites in the MCU partly because of that unashamed comicbookines, but I think that comes more from Chris Markus and Steve Mc Feely the writers.

So many great interviews with those two.

made ya look
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145339: Jul 28th 2022 at 11:20:06 AM

Now that I think about it, I do think that there's some Captain America characters that really should've had a "Really? This is happening?" moment during IW/Endgame.

Like, I know Bucky had gone through some really horrible shit as the Winter Soldier, but is he seriously not going to react to the talking raccoon that is shooting a machine gun and wants his arm?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#145340: Jul 28th 2022 at 11:34:31 AM

That seems like the kind of conversation you have after the battle with an invading space army. Plus, that raccoon rode in with Thor, so for all he knows, this is just some god shit.

Of course, the Blip happened after the battle. So, basically, at some point offscreen, this discussion happened.

  • Bucky: So, is anyone going to explain the fucking raccoon that harassed me for my arm back in the Wakanda battle?
  • Bruce: That "fucking raccoon" is a valued Avenger and you should show him some respect. He's part of the reason you were even able to come back.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 28th 2022 at 11:35:38 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#145341: Jul 28th 2022 at 11:48:22 AM

There probably comes a point where some mix of "this is my life now" and "this might as well happen" sets in and you just stop questioning anything. I mean, aliens invaded and Norse Gods are real and that was just the start.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145342: Jul 28th 2022 at 11:51:58 AM

There is a blink-and-you'll-miss-it scene in Ms. Marvel Episode 6 in which two characters are on a subway train and one suffers a bout of Power Incontinence. The passengers notice but barely react. This sort of thing must be getting normalized in the MCU.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145343: Jul 28th 2022 at 11:56:23 AM

I just wish that there was at least one character who always freaks out at what's happening without fail, no matter how much he experiences. Kinda like Jack Burton in Big Trouble in Little China.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#145344: Jul 28th 2022 at 12:06:41 PM

One of the things I like is that the MCU is finally branching out with the “people in general are starting to get superpowers” concept, whereas before it always seemed limited to very specific characters. Now it feels like the world is getting super: it’s even part of the premise of She Hulk.

But yeah, I also love that the MCU is finally started to get more unabashed in their comic book silliness. We wouldn’t have gotten a character like Ego before, for instance, even in the environment that gave us the first Guardians film.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#145345: Jul 28th 2022 at 12:06:57 PM

[up][up]That would get dull very quickly. At some point you have to have that character develop a tolerance for the otherwoldly.

Edited by VeryMelon on Jul 28th 2022 at 3:07:55 PM

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145346: Jul 28th 2022 at 12:19:57 PM

I kinda envision Frank Castle having a cameo in some supernatural series when he's scoping out someone else and encounters vampires, zombies, demons, eldritch horrors, or something else and has no idea what he's seeing and is starting to sweat, only for Blade, Elsa Bloodstone, and/or Moon Knight to bail him out. Frank's trying to hide that, for the first time in forever, he's scared shitless, while it's just another day for them.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145347: Jul 28th 2022 at 12:28:09 PM

I’m reminded there are characters who react with certain standards depending at what’s going on.

Like in the comics Earthbound hero Jack Flag joins the Guardians of the Galaxy for a time and the jokes with him lie in how out of depth he is with cosmic stuff to the point his catchphrase is “I hate space stuff”. He’s not really incompetent, he actually handles himself quite well he just makes some comments on how he finds everything generally insane while the rest of the Guardians act generally deadpan as to what’s going on.

So it’s less disbelief and more active annoyance. He prefers dealing with Earth stuff than going on time travel adventures and fighting alien cult shit that wants to revive Cthulhu.

Or when Thanos gets revived and while everyone is freaking out, Flag is more confused cause he has no frame of reference.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145348: Jul 28th 2022 at 1:18:06 PM

That would get dull very quickly. At some point you have to have that character develop a tolerance for the otherwoldly.

It would make them more realistic though. And I say that because I know I absolutely would freak out at every single thing happening in this world.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145349: Jul 28th 2022 at 1:26:39 PM

Another instance I recall is during the Annihilation event

There Drax at the time was traveling with a young human girl from Earth from Cammi who acted as the audience surrogate to the general insanity of the cosmic Marvel. Plus personality wise she's a cynical sarcastic and irreverant young teenager from a backwater small town.

So when she sees Quasar she says "This man is wearing a cape" or Nova "Do you know you're wearing a bucket on your head".

But she's the only one who does that. Everyone else treats each other with seriousness and general respect, even Quasar and Nova as they have fully acclimated to the alien setting.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Dictionaryman616 Since: Mar, 2020 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145350: Jul 28th 2022 at 1:28:27 PM

For Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, I want to figure out how Adam Warlock is going to find the Guardians.


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