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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145176: Jul 26th 2022 at 11:04:56 AM

Well she was supposed to get that New Warriors show but it got canceled cause an exec thought it was "too gay"

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#145177: Jul 26th 2022 at 11:06:35 AM

As in, they couldn't edit out of foreign markets level of gay?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#145178: Jul 26th 2022 at 11:13:29 AM

With TV shows that is usually not a concern. So more likely, made that very straght exec uncomfortable levels of gay.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#145179: Jul 26th 2022 at 11:39:21 AM

I agree Squirrel Girl seems more suited to something like Harley Quinn (2019) than a "serious" "movie".

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#145180: Jul 26th 2022 at 11:45:23 AM

Destin Daniel Cretton (Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings) is set to direct Avengers: The Kang Dynasty, according to the Hollywood Reporter. Not much to known besides that.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#145181: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:02:53 PM

there's just no room for Squirrel Girl in the MCU,it's too crowded with Serious Professionals

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145182: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:07:20 PM

[up][up] That's interesting. Perhaps Shang-Chi is going to play a major role in fighting Kang?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#145183: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:11:01 PM

I think somebody in this thread did guess that they would put directors of recent solo movies on the next Avengers films, they might have been on to something with that.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145184: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:14:01 PM

In fairness, it worked pretty damn well with The Russo Brothers. Their Cerebus Syndrome storytelling worked really well with Captain America, and they proved that they could juggle a big cast in Civil War, so it only seems natural that they closed off the Infinity Saga.

Though how Creston is going to jump from Shang-Chi to Avengers makes me curious. Maybe his D+ show will set something up for him? I thought that was going to be Shang-Chi related at first, but now I'm not so sure...

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 26th 2022 at 12:14:28 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145185: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:19:06 PM

I'll have to rewatch Shang Chi I guess. I watched it when I got D+ and it was fine, kind of wore out it's welcome by the end though.

Still nothing obviously wrong with the directing that I could tell (not that I'm much of a judge) so I remain optimistic.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145186: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:28:45 PM

So long as there's no giant CGI monster to fight after Kang is defeated, it's all good with me.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145187: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:29:24 PM

There has to be a giant third-act CGI battle, though. It's the law.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#145188: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:31:34 PM

[up]*2. One of the potential plans I can imagine is that Kang decides to empower Alioth to destroy the multiverse, and the avengers must stop him before he grows too big.

Edited by DarthNoxIsCool on Jul 26th 2022 at 12:31:52 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#145189: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:31:41 PM

The monster would be the Alioth,yes.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#145190: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:32:33 PM

Doom should definitely be a recurring villain.

Due to his diplomatic immunity the heroes can't just imprison or kill him, only repel his attacks, beat his ass up, shatter his ambitions, graffiti his castle, and then negotiate tenuous peace agreements. Agreements that maybe lead to him helping out in the next global crisis, only for him to use it to leverage more power for himself down the line.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Jul 26th 2022 at 3:33:16 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#145191: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:33:40 PM

Honestly, the problem with the third act of Shang-Chi (to me at least) wasn't even that the giant CGI-monster fight was bad, just disconnected from the emotional aspect of the story and not really as fulfilling to watch as the awesome hand-to-hand/ring-to-staff/ring-to-ring fighting we'd gotten beforehand.

In the context of an Avengers movie, a giant monster fight would work fine probably.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#145192: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:34:35 PM

wild mass guessKang IS the giant CGI monster.wild mass guess

Yeah, no strong opinions on which director they handed it to. Given how much of a 'team effort' MCU films are it's hard to say how much of a film's flaws is the director's fault — for example I think their lighting in many of the recent entries sucks ass, but how much of that is the director and how much is the overworked VFX crunching? etc. It's gotten to the point that I'm more concerned about the writers attached to a project (Michael Waldron watch your six for real...)

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145193: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:38:50 PM

Man, people really don't like Michael Waldron, huh?

Honestly, I am starting to get genuinely concerned about Marvel's VFX people. They're getting way too much work forced on them, especially with stuff that really doesn't need to get delegated to them. I dunno what needs to change up top to get it to stop, but it needs to happen.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 26th 2022 at 12:39:16 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145194: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:39:12 PM

I'll admit that I'm tired of comic-book films setting major fight scenes in darkness, guaranteeing that we can't see what's going on. Never mind shooting them up close with rapid cuts and shaky cam.

Edit: I also am worried about the VFX artists. There are a lot of rumors of them getting really poor treatment, as attested to by Chim Ontario, an expert in rendering giant monkey crotches.

Seriously, Screen Rant should drop most of their content except for Ryan George's work because he's the only good thing they have going.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 26th 2022 at 3:41:29 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145195: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:40:54 PM

Considering the multiverse setting, I wonder if Kanga might set evil versions of the Avengers against each other.

It would be cruelly petty if say plucked the Superior Iron Man and Hydra Captain American out of their own worlds to sick them on the Avengers.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145196: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:45:11 PM

It would require recasting which would take a lot out of the impact of it.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145197: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:46:38 PM

And there's no way in hell Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans would come back for something like that.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145198: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:48:38 PM

Unless they're really desperate after Doolite and Lightyear respectively.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#145199: Jul 26th 2022 at 12:51:19 PM

Film Critic Hulk seems to consider Cretton's directing a strong point of the Shang-Chi film, particularly his knack for more personal interactions (a thing the MCU films often tend to suffer from a lack of), so I guess that's good news. I do think that third act aside, and the use of fridging as a plot point aside, Shang-Chi was an above-average film for me because of the way it delivered on the human intimacy between characters.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 26th 2022 at 3:52:38 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#145200: Jul 26th 2022 at 1:31:37 PM

This is a pretty good article from a VFX artist about why Marvel overworks effects teams and gets questionable results.

The reasons highlighted are:

  • They pick the lowest bidding studio to save money, which means less VFX artists.
  • So many movies and shows means less time to complete projects before having to jump into the next.
  • Marvel tends to completely rewrite the third act climax late in production.
  • Many of the directors don’t have experience with VFX since they previously had just done small indie films.
  • The VFX team doesn’t share the director of photography from the non-CG shooting, so the CG scenes don’t mesh with the rest of the movie’s cinematography style.
  • Lack of unions.


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