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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145151: Jul 26th 2022 at 7:07:11 AM

Do we really think Doom will be coming for Phase 5? I'm asking not because I'm anti-comics or anything, but because I don't see a place for him to fit into the lineup that we've seen so far.

Sure, Feige might be hiding a rabbit in his hat, but which of the Phase 5 properties that have been announced might reasonably feature him as a villain?

If he does show up in Wakanda Forever, it's insane to think that he would be killed in it; as noted by many people he's much too important a character to be a "one-and-done". Of course, Actually a Doombot is named after him, so that's always a possibility, just one that I cordially despise because it means writers always have a cop-out.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 26th 2022 at 10:09:34 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#145152: Jul 26th 2022 at 7:11:30 AM

Doom can not be contained within just one movie! Doom requires a duology AT LEAST!

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#145153: Jul 26th 2022 at 7:19:07 AM

That wasn't doom contained in one movie, it was a Doombot all along

eta: But yeah if he is in BP 2 it seems unlikely to be much more than say Hercules in L&T. And unless an FF movie (oh there's one in Phase 6?) is coming there doesn't seem a good place to slot him in. Nothing in Phase 5 looks likely to me

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 26th 2022 at 3:21:52 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145154: Jul 26th 2022 at 7:21:09 AM

[up][up] We had that. It was Tim Story's Fantastic Four films. Didn't go over too well.

Maybe we need him to appear in every movie that Wong doesn't from Phase 5 onward. That's a reasonable plan.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jul 26th 2022 at 7:21:24 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#145155: Jul 26th 2022 at 7:21:54 AM

Wong was actually a Doombot in disguise.

Edited by diddyknux on Jul 26th 2022 at 9:22:30 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145156: Jul 26th 2022 at 7:30:43 AM

Joking aside, this is why I cordially hate the Actually a Doombot trope. It allows the writer to pull the narrative stakes out of the plot at any time by having the characters be unable to accomplish anything meaningful. It's a variant of my pet peeve with Spider-Man: overuse of the Yank the Dog's Chain trope.

It's related to Opening a Can of Clones, whose description adequately expresses the problem with this sort of narrative: audiences can never count on anything being permanent. Expendable Alternate Universe is the other version: introducing multiverses but only making the "main" one relevant.

It's fine to use it for specific stories. Kang is a perfect example: he can never be truly killed because there's always a variant of himself ready to fill the void, but that only works if the characters find a way to defeat him for real and, most importantly, seal off all of these colliding universes.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 26th 2022 at 10:36:56 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#145158: Jul 26th 2022 at 7:44:11 AM

The MCU could likely come out with a clone saga better than clone saga 2. Should it though? No, probably not

Should they make a short about it with Tom Holland acting against Tom Holland? Yes.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#145159: Jul 26th 2022 at 8:53:49 AM

Do we really think Doom will be coming for Phase 5? I'm asking not because I'm anti-comics or anything, but because I don't see a place for him to fit into the lineup that we've seen so far.

... How about the announced Fantastic Four movie?

Though ironically that's the one movie where I don't want him to show up. All three previous FF movies made the mistake of using him too soon and messing him up completely by failing to reproduce him in a way that works. I don't want that again.

diddyknux Straw Hat Robin (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Straw Hat Robin
#145160: Jul 26th 2022 at 8:58:28 AM

I was puzzled for a moment when you said 3, because I completely forgot Fan4stic exists.

Edited by diddyknux on Jul 26th 2022 at 10:58:48 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145161: Jul 26th 2022 at 8:59:16 AM

[up][up]I thought about that, but it wouldn't make sense for him to be a one-shot villain in F4, especially set against the major threat of Kang in the Avengers team-ups. On the other hand, if F4 leads into The Kang Dynasty, then maybe Doom can play a part in it, but we have far too little information right now to say for sure. It's just speculation.

About the only way I can see it working is if Doom is introduced in Wakanda Forever as a Greater-Scope Villain, then put on a bus for a while. The problem is that we already know that Kang will serve that purpose, with Quantumania serving to bring him into the spotlight. Can the MCU juggle two Greater Scope Villains at the same time?

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 26th 2022 at 12:00:43 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SAwatching from south africa Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#145162: Jul 26th 2022 at 9:06:53 AM

Given that Kang appears in Ant-man 3 with MODOK I would say it is quite possible that Doom could appear in a major role in Phase 5 yet that is just speculating. I agree that he should not be the main Villain of Fantastic Four because he has been in the past movies, personly I would like to see Annihilus ( the FF does have a big rouge gallery)

Sincerely S Awatching.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#145163: Jul 26th 2022 at 9:24:45 AM

Annnnd now I'm realizing I was in the Black Panther thread and not the MCU one.

Blade is the next MCU film I'm really excited for, moreso than Black Panther 2 if I'm honest. And Marsheala Ali was great in Luke Cage.

Edited by FOFD on Jul 26th 2022 at 12:39:50 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#145164: Jul 26th 2022 at 9:33:07 AM

It's a weird thing to say, but I do really think it's best for them to introduce Doom and separately from Fantastic Four, have him be a villain in ensemble works but also have him be a primary character in the FF's movies.

Mostly because "superhero team Fantastic Four origin vs supervillain Dr. Doom" has failed twice and imo isn't a great way to approach the Fantastic Four. Using Doom as a rival to whatever explorations the Four go on work, but it's also probably not what the MCU wants to do with Doom himself.

So I say, do both "Doom as international super-Blofeld extraordinaire" and "Doom as Reed Richards' greatest rival," but do them separately.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 26th 2022 at 9:33:18 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145165: Jul 26th 2022 at 9:36:56 AM

Based on things previously said in this thread, I have a suspicion that Fantastic Four will be a throwback film like Captain Marvel, using some excuse like being frozen in ice or off in intergalactic space to justify why the leads haven't participated in the MCU proper.

If Doom is a part of that film (and I will say that I rather liked Fantastic Four (2005), as corny as it was at times), he would also have to be sealed in a can so that he can be brought out later to serve as a major antagonist.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145166: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:21:02 AM

If we're gonna do more throwback stuff, that'd be perfect for a Cold War-era Winter Guard film, and obviously Weapon X. It'd also be a good way to introduce Aarkus as a superweapon gone wrong.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#145167: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:24:35 AM

People tend to think of Doom as strictly a FF villain when he's actually more of Big Bad for the Marvel universe at large even if RIIIICCCCCHHHHHHAAAARRRRRDDDDSSSSS takes most of his attention.

So I can see him making a debut in the FF movie but not really being defeated permanently and becoming an overarching threat.

More importantly, I just hope they get that he's pure comic book cheese played straight and can back up his boasts.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 26th 2022 at 1:25:08 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#145168: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:25:43 AM

I doubt Doom would be a one-off antagonist.

If Marvel had any sense they would make him a multi-movie character instead of him killing him off after only one film.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145169: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:30:58 AM

That’s the fun/frustrating thing about Doom. You can kill him as many times as you want and it’s just another Doombot.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 26th 2022 at 1:31:26 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#145170: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:33:04 AM

I could see Doom being slowly build up with minor appearences throughout phase 5 as a long term villain. Maybe the final battle against Kang could involve him pulling a Enemy Mine with the heroes wich ultimately has him come out in a much stronger position then before and has him take on the role as the new overarching villain post Phase 6.

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#145171: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:35:12 AM

That, and Doom is easily an ensemble-level threat whenever he wants to be, but he doesn't make big plays without first planning it out and having a backup for everything.

[up] Absolutely something he'd do. Doom is unparalleled at finding crises to capitalize on and coming out on top.

Edited by HasturHasturHastur on Jul 26th 2022 at 10:36:17 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#145172: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:46:58 AM

If the Fantastic Four does the Cold War angle, will they get the chance to run into other characters? Hank Pym, Janet van Dyne, Alexander Pierce, Howard Stark, Ivan Vanko, Peggy Carter, Arnim Zola and the Eternals come to mind.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#145173: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:50:34 AM

As long as Doom’s true defeat comes from squirrels I’m happy. tongue

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#145174: Jul 26th 2022 at 10:57:39 AM

They missed their chance to have Squirrel girl defeat Thanos, so maybe we can get this. cool

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 26th 2022 at 2:01:33 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#145175: Jul 26th 2022 at 11:03:09 AM

Squirrel Girl is such an inherently silly character that I can't see her getting a serious screen adaptation, although I would love to see her, Gwenpool, and Deadpool form some kind of anti-Fourth Wall crusader team.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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