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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
So here's my thinking. The second Ant-Man film has an evil organization that is basically "some criminal dude and his thugs who want Hank Pym's technology". AIM fits into this niche quite well as "wacky evil science organization that wants Hank Pym's technology". Good so far.
But we also know that Kang is going to show up and everyone's going to go play in the Quantum Realm, and we expect MODOK to be found there. If MODOK is there, rather than in the regular world, then he won't be associated with AIM initially unless they're also there with him and he's got some kind of weird quantum cult going. (This could make for some good comedy.)
If the rumors are true and he is Cross (the man, not the emotion), maybe this is how he becomes their leader. Perhaps AIM is partly the cause of everyone getting stuck in the Quantum Realm and follows them in, or they let MODOK out and he takes them over.
These are all possibilities, but we just don't know yet. I will add that people insisting that "the comics have it this way so I'll be upset if the MCU doesn't follow that" are just as annoying to me as my "aggressive ambivalence" is to them.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 24th 2022 at 9:30:48 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm thinking that Quantumania is going to be the Guardians of the Galaxy of the Multiverse Saga. Kang is just going to appear in the movie to the same degree that Thanos was in Guardians, while the Ronan stand-in will be MODOK.
Before we knew MODOK was in the film, my original theory was that Kang was going to be the Ronan stand-in, and the Thanos stand-in would be another, stronger version of Kang.
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Going past the fact that demanding "valid explanation" for speculation is absolutely making a mountain out of something that doesn't need to be (and something that, to be honest, I have been rather gentle about thus far), nitpicking away "this thing is part of the character's character description" as irrelevant doesn't make a lot of sense. Speculating that they won't be... well... adapted is far more of a wild spec.
This is, also, moving right past again that you've yet to give any reasons to back up what you're saying at all. I've mostly been responding to other people's points while you just go "your take isn't valid" every few posts.
This has been coming off as vitriol against this random thing being adapted - and an unfounded assumption that it would somehow ruin the pacing of the movie, which as I've already gone over... yeah. Not really an assumption that needs to be made. It's an overreaction. Hence my repeatedly noting that this whole argument is kind of baffling.
I made a post a few pages ago about how the overreactions and vitriol that erupt the moment someone mentions something from the comics is a problem, one that we already had too much of in the Miss Marvel thread, and one feels like it was a major issue in this conversation. There's no reason I should've had to go on the defensive so much just for noting that a character is likely to be adapted with the things that they are associated with.
Okay, to give a serious plot take on this:
It doesn't make a lot of sense that a major character - especially one as outlandish and requiring in explanation as MODOK - would just appear only within the Quantum Realm, after the plot with Kang is already underway.
Presumably not the entire movie is going to be just within the Quantum Realm. There's going to be movie that takes place on terra firma. Likewise, the characters are going to need a reason to go there.
Like, if we know they're going to the Quantum Realm, and we know (or have reason to believe) MODOK is going to be involved, wouldn't the most obvious plotline there be "MODOK tries to harness the power of the Quantum Realm, thing go horribly awry - likely due to the heroes, and he gets sucked in where the heroes find him later"?
Why are we assuming that the most likely option is that they just drop him into the story?
I've been figuring MODOK's involvement is the same as Batroc's pirates, HYDRA in Ultron, Crossbones' gang in Civil War, the golden aliens in GOTG 2, etc: a big setpiece for the heroes do to what they do and fight bad guys, in an inconsequential way that tangentially sets up the rest of the story. As I said, the MCU does that all the time. Superhero movies in general do it all the time, really.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 24th 2022 at 6:49:05 AM
I gave my reasons, granted they are rumors but I believe them and base my thoughts on the movie on them. Just like you're basing MODOK's involvement being an inconsequential fight that tangentially sets up the rest of the story in the beginning, on your own personal opinion.
You and I remember Budapest very differentlyOkay, argument aside: if it's no big deal, why are you making an argument out of it. What's the point of making of point of that?
If you thought the whole time that we were just having a difference of opinion, where is the whole "what you're saying is invalid unless you give me a valid reason to let you say it" stuff coming from? It's not like you ever gave a reason why you disagreed so vehemently, after all, beyond simply disagreeing (I think the closest you got was "they don't have to if they don't want to" which wasn't something anyone was disputing). Hence why I've been giving sharing points with others, whereas I've just been asking you to give context.
I'm defending what I'm saying because people keep trying to argue that I'm wrong for saying it, which - hey, it's relevant conversation - I'm always happy to and capable of intelligently doing that as long as it doesn't derail the thread or get uncivil. But if on your end, it's "just your opinion," then why not just let it go and let it be said?
It just seems like a weird thing to say now after you've been making such a mountain out of this possibility. You haven't been saying "it's my opinion that they won't show up," you've been saying "they won't show up and you need to prove to me that they will," which - well - is something different entirely. And I've made quite a few points about that from the reasonable objections other people have said, which you've since ignored - likely because you weren't interested in talking about it in the first place. On my end, I was under the impression that people didn't want AIM in the movie, figuring that's why they were arguing against it. But it's starting to sound increasingly like this whole thing was based on nothing.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 24th 2022 at 7:06:25 AM
There have been adaptations where he's just someone else's henchman.
Since Kang appears to be the main villain, that could be the case here.
Edited by Cortez on Jul 24th 2022 at 10:08:59 AM
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I can only think of one that did that: the 90's Iron Man show, which is a series I've never seen another adaptation copy... well... anything from. It wasn't very popular.
Iron Man Armored Adventures did it too, but they adapted him with AIM first and then transitioned him out of it: Justin Hammer took control of him after a defeat.
You sure did.
Again, if you think this is all just a difference of opinion, people shouldn't need a "valid reason" to disagree with you.
And again, "I don't think this thing will show up, and that's my opinion" and "this thing can't show up, so you're wrong" are two different things, especially when the source for the latter is a rumor. If you meant the former then it should be pointed out that you've been saying the latter.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 24th 2022 at 7:13:51 AM
I'm uncertain what the rumors are, but my thought would be that it's not Cross who's MODOK, but that both MODOK and Antman are after Cross, probably to prevent his tech from falling into MODOK's hands. MODOK's got a little army of henchmen to provide troops for the inevitable third act big fight and they go by a different acronym, that coincidentally also spells AIM.
And, as suggested above, Kang is revealed to be behind MODOK.
Still didn't say you needed to prove anything to me, I said just saying "comic book origin" didn't fully count as an argument. Those are two different things. Saying "I don't believe the rumors you do" would count as an argument, but I never asked you to prove anything to me.
You and I remember Budapest very differentlyAgain putting aside that I responded to that, if you needed someone to provide an argument, that is asking for proof. It's rather literally what words like "valid reasoning" and argument are in reference to. "You have to give a valid argument" and "you need to prove it to me" are saying the same things.
It feels like you're trying to have it both ways here. But it bears repeating: if this is all just opinion to you, people shouldn't need a valid reason to disagree with you. Period.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 24th 2022 at 7:18:45 AM
I mean, yeah. Everyone else has been giving reasons - reasons I disagree with, sure, but actual points against my position - so I've been happy to defend my point with responses as long as it's on topic and civil. I said that already. In short, it's actually been a discussion.
As you've not really been doing that, been going "your argument is invalid" without any actual reason why, and then going "well, that's just your opinion man" when that didn't work out, I've been responding differently to you - and, as you've been doubling down on that behavior, this is me outlining why that's a problem.
I hope this wasn't your intention, but it comes off as aggressively trying to push an argument just to push an argument. Which isn't a very good approach to discussion.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 24th 2022 at 7:38:04 AM
I'm literally just defending my take from two pages of objections at this point. I'm still rather baffled at how vehemently the thread has been trying to prove me wrong for thinking this random thing would be in the film, and while y'all know I'm always up to debate - a bit too much, sometimes - this has gone from zero to confusingly aggressive in record time so I would very much like to change the topic if we can.
My last few posts were in reference to Hawkeye being rude (and then deflecting when called out while continuing the behavior), not in reference to them being possibly right or wrong. That said, while I stand by what I said, it takes two to tango and I full on took the invitation to derail, and for that I apologize.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 24th 2022 at 8:16:46 AM
Dude, Hawkeye was not rude. You are the one who jumped all over the suggestion that AIM might not be in the story along with MODOK, then got offended when we pointed out that this isn't necessary.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Okay. Why does my spec have to be "necessary?"
From your recent behavior, my take on this is that you and Hawkeye assumed without prompting that this was a "the MCU has to be like the comics" accusation when that wasn't what was happening, and cultivated an argument out of it based on the preconception that I was some kind of alteration hater or some shit. Looking back on how this started, the kind of things you both were saying, and the way you two absolutely leapt on this, it make sense.
Meanwhile, I spend most of this just trying to make sense of the aggressive response while making responses to people who weren't being so aggressive. That would be why I repeatedly kept saying over and over "why is everyone so against this" and "this isn't as big a thing as people is making this out to be" and so on.
One of the earliest things I said was "nobody is attacking your ambivalence" and I meant it. But that's a two way street: your being ambivalent to things is not an excuse to make a problem out of other people not being ambivalent to things - and being open to things being different includes also being open to things being the same.
Seriously, this is the second time in a month I've seen you doing this, dude.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 24th 2022 at 8:52:18 AM
Let's try summing this all up:
However, the current rumor/speculation for Quantumania is that MODOK will be Darren Cross, somehow turned into MODOK during his time stranded in the Quantum Realm. If said rumor is true, then AIM's presence becomes far less likely, since MODOK would have had no opportunity to acquire anyone to work for him.
But, this far out from a movie's release, lots of wild rumors circulate, so some people put far less credence in this than others.
Is this something everyone can agree on?
Well, not all of it. I don't really agree with that plot synopsis because it assumes MODOK would be dropped in the Quantum Realm without previously appearing in the film, while I think it's more likely narratively that he would appear in the rising action on Earth and end up trapped in the Quantum Realm later.
But spec is spec. We're all just making conflicting educated guesses at this point.
On other stuff, this video is hilarious. Tony assumes Cap is racist but instead reveals himself to be quite the bigot to Cap's horror.
"I have a black friend."
Okay bullshit Tony you can't use that excuse against someone who also has a black friend.
"What do you mean you come from the 40s."
"Right but that doesn't mean everyone was an asshole."
And we just received the ultimate teardown of the entire concept of Ultimate Captain America.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 24th 2022 at 8:42:19 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

It's basically just a question of whether or not Modok will have Mooks. If he does have Mooks, said Mooks would presumably be called AIM.
EDIT:
Edited by RavenWilder on Jul 24th 2022 at 6:31:41 AM