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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
It does make it seem like a lot of Marvel writers never heard of the concept of a constitutional monarchy.
Probably wouldn't stop them. From what I heard, some people actually are still complaining about the monarchy in England and asking for them to be kicked out, even though their power is little more than symbolical by now. I actually saw a Youtuber arguing thing, saying that the royal family serves no purpose and that even if they aren't really ruling it's intolerable that they have any form of special title based on their bloodline.
Given my annoyance about Americans constantly despicting them as the heroes and good guys, I can't deny I like this bit^^
Edited by Theokal3 on Jul 23rd 2022 at 9:11:52 PM
The British monarchy doesn't have a lot of actual legislative power but they have a lot of *symbolic* and *nationalist* power that a lot of conservatives in Britain love to flaunt.
Constitutional monarchies are still national symbols and all.
Don't think so? It contains several presidents and is only defined as one where the protagonists are The Powers That Be.
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Yeah, I don't know what the right response for that would be in any comics universe where literally nothing is stable except between event comics.
Edited by ECD on Jul 23rd 2022 at 12:17:12 PM
We do have a video game starring a President Action, made in Japan amusingly
Metal Wolf Chaos, the most American game ever made
Your evil Vice-President betrays you and takes over the military so he can rule America, so President Micael dons a power armor and with the help of his cheerful secretary will single-handily liberate America because..... HE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THIS GREAT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
"I can't turn my back on a friend. And the reason is...... I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES"
"Nothing is pointless. And the reason is..... BECAUSE I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE GREAT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"
Now that's a President to vote for.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 23rd 2022 at 12:45:17 PM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Keeping the government discussion on-topic: how exactly do things in the Global Repatriation Council work? I mean, when it came to shoving immigrants out of the homes of those who were Snapped because the latter Blipped, how exactly would the respective populations of the nation-states representated in the GRC have decided on having those immigrants deported to camps?
Edited by HallowHawk on Jul 23rd 2022 at 1:36:08 AM
Okay, I flipped over to Marvel's livestream
for today and it looks like the movie panel will be at 7:30 PM EDT (4:30 PM PDT, 23:30 UTC). About three hours until the reveals.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 23rd 2022 at 4:45:22 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
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I'll say basically none of the international order of the MCU makes any sense.
My best attempt to make sense of it would be that the actual proposals were negotiated amongst the member states that were moving people around and then the whole thing was being voted on as a group.
Edited by ECD on Jul 23rd 2022 at 2:05:12 AM
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It could be.
Its an interesting contrast to Aquaman treating a transition to democracy akin to some perfect ultimate system that will immediately bring Atlantis to a golden age, while Adam points out the difficulty in such transitions and that American democracy may not really be worth the difficulty and struggle it generates.
In an interview Priest did joke he prolly agrees with Adam that it's probably better he doesn't make Kahndaq a democracy.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 23rd 2022 at 2:03:15 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
Yeah, this is on brand for the MCU, because the Sokovia Accords are poorly thought-out as well. Not that the nations of the world necessarily have the best track record when it comes to the human rights of unpopular minorities (cough, cough), but international treaties can't violate the U.S. Constitution and we have rules about things like due process and indefinite detention, as noted by this Legal Eagle video
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Plus, there's the fact that superheroes really do save humans from some pretty major threats, so a little gratitude would seem to be in order. We'll lock them up for being unlicensed vigilantes but as soon as Thanos shows up, it's all forgiven.
Now, I've been on record as supporting the general idea of the Accords since a civil society generally doesn't want unlicensed vigilantes going around acting as the law, but in the context of the MCU, which has legitimate supervillain threats and... unreliable... civil authorities, they create more problems than they solve.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 23rd 2022 at 5:06:12 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
And the US has never found convenient loopholes or just ignored those rules when it suited them?
While the Sokovia Accords were technically international it's very telling that their primary enforcer is General Ross, who believes superheroes are US Property and not humans with rights.
Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 23rd 2022 at 10:06:02 AM
The complaints that I’ve seen are more about how so much money is still directed to them that could be going to people who need it more.
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General (now Secretary) Ross is portrayed as an unmitigated asshole and his treatment of imprisoned supers is utterly reprehensible, so it becomes easier for audiences to sympathize with Steve's side. It's a clever narrative trick, but more to the point it's necessary because the MCU wants to send the message that being a superhero is cool beans and civil authorities are party poopers.
Hence how DoDC overreaches in Ms. Marvel when they could have made a very reasonable case that the Clandestines are a threat serious enough to justify their intervention.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 23rd 2022 at 5:09:35 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
only if you take the specific example as being the whole.
Even Steve admits in Civil War that can accept the oversight if there are safeguards in place. And well they had oversight in SHIELD and look how that turned out? It doesn't mean All oversight is bad but it means Steve is understandably weary of it.
Generally it's one of those things I'd wish they wouldn't raise the question of and let suspension of disbelief take care of it.
I preferred the Steve in The First Avenger who would break the rules if necessary but then turn himself in for legal discipline. Instead late-MCU Steve becomes a guy who when his orders without oversight lead to catastrophe he just shrugs his shoulders and goes “nobody’s perfect”.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 23rd 2022 at 2:23:05 AM
See, this comes down to verisimilitude, and if every civilian in the MCU is Holding Out for a Hero when they are not All of the Other Reindeer, suspension of disbelief starts to fail as we wonder why anyone would bother trying to protect these dipshits.
Realistically, civil authorities would start to take issue with costumed vigilantes with the firepower of armored divisions going around fighting terrorists and criminals with zero oversight or accountability. For one thing, that's their job, and for another the collateral damage can't all be paid for with Hero Insurance.
Sooner or later the writers have to address the elephant in the room, and in the MCU this is accomplished by having those civil authorities try to enact oversight but uniformly be corrupt, assholes, or both. It allows for a veneer of verisimilitude while allowing the core superheroics to take place relatively uninterrupted.
Generally, audiences don't pay for tickets to a superhero movie to sit through two and a half hours of Law and Order: Enhanced Individuals Unit.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 23rd 2022 at 5:27:17 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Fun Fact, Christopher Priest when he went on to write to Deathstroke introduced a character called Red Lion whose is basically evil Black Panther as a gag to being famous for his iconic run on Black Panther
A very charming and funny guy..... when's he not committing ethnic cleansing and genocide on his people
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 23rd 2022 at 2:28:02 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
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Frankly I think they'd be better off if they stopped. Superheroes are doing it because they're the only people who can is the Necessary Weasel of these movies. if they stopped drawing attention to it, that would be a lot better than constantly trying to come up with an excuse.
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I rather think my point is. No, they don't have to address that elephant in the room. It's one of those things once you've taken the genie out of the bottle by raising the question, you'll never have an answer that satisfies people so why bring it to mind?
eta:
It wasn't the UN that was evil in Avengers it was "The World Security Council". A separate organisation. Civil War makes the distinction clear, Rhodey claims that the UN isn't corrupt like Shield, hydra or the World Security council.
Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 23rd 2022 at 10:43:41 AM
Well, as people keep reminding me, the MCU is adapted from the comics, and the Civil War elephant in the room was always there, loudly farting. Never mind that SHIELD was around as early as Iron Man 1 (until it was retconned to exist in The '80s by Captain Marvel (2019)) and General Ross was part of the plot of The Incredible Hulk (2008). The Avengers have always dealt with civil authorities and it would be weird for them to never come up at all.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 23rd 2022 at 5:48:03 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
And as you've said many times. The comics don't matter. They can pick and choose what they include and what to adapt and change it as much as they like. The Civil War of the comics was very different and had a very different emphasis anyway,
As yeah, they had SHIELD, up until Winter Soldier you can argue that they were mostly operating under oversight.
Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 23rd 2022 at 10:49:56 AM

The current Black Adam comic by Christopher Priest, which is about Adam dealing with the political turmoil in his country between traditionalists okay with the old systems and modernists who want a new style, makes mention of that.
While Adam is open to the idea of having a new form of government for Kahndaq, he makes it clear what exactly he thinks of the US while talking to a CIA agent.
Agent:"We're here to help Theo, a stable Kahndaq is in all our best interests."
Adam: ""Stable"? That what you'd call America? Billions across the globe cry for freedom while you vote yours over to extremists. You people are some kind of idiots."
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 23rd 2022 at 11:51:44 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."