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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144751: Jul 22nd 2022 at 10:34:22 PM

It would make sense that Kang only cares about universes in which bad versions of himself arise and leaves the others alone. I guess the TVA just sort of brushes those off as unimportant, or maybe there's some critical nexus in the past where all of it started and it literally cannot go farther back than that.

Anyway, we may find all that out soon to go by some of the trademarked titles. Tomorrow is when all the cinematic reveals are coming.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 1:35:01 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#144752: Jul 22nd 2022 at 10:47:12 PM

But what if...the cinematic reveals don't come?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144753: Jul 22nd 2022 at 10:50:19 PM

Then we will be sad. More to the point, we will spend several more months debating these questions.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#144754: Jul 22nd 2022 at 11:01:56 PM

Yeah, my guess is that there are plenty of Nathaniel Richards variants out there who either stay good or never become Kang. He Who Remains very well may be an Iron Lad who actually succeeded at not becoming Kang and closed the door on Kang ever being a possibility.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#144755: Jul 22nd 2022 at 11:12:28 PM

I can’t say I like the idea that HWR has only been culling Kang-specific timelines. One is because that doesn’t look like how the TVA operates; they snip any deviation they can detect, simply for existing. It also doesn’t add up with how HWR operates in isolation. Why doesn’t he seek out another HWR as a replacement? Why not create another alliance of good Kangs? It also makes him seem far too… justified? It tips the argument too much in my opinion if something like Sylvie’s existence isn’t just leaving a chance for Kang, but instead will lead to Kang. Nor does it add up how all these random events would lead inevitably to Kangs. Surely he could just tell the TVA to never let his parents meet in those timelines.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 23rd 2022 at 3:15:12 AM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#144756: Jul 22nd 2022 at 11:14:28 PM

It's almost like that entire Kang reveal was always going to cause more problems than the writer understood it would.

Edited by VeryMelon on Jul 22nd 2022 at 2:16:26 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144757: Jul 22nd 2022 at 11:53:42 PM

Since we're getting a bunch of shows, its got me thinking of what cartoon for a character I'd like to see especially Freshman Year not being strictly within the MCU.

First pick uh I'd say give Black Panther a show. If we can't have T'Challa in the movies no reason why the dude can't get his own show.

And was mentioned here, an r-rated Immortal Hulk would be dope. We actually did get a Hulk cartoon a while back, sure it was bad but still it shows that Hulk can star in his own show at least.

The Marvel Zombies show being ma-rated opens up a lot of avenues for potential shows.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#144758: Jul 23rd 2022 at 12:00:15 AM

With them being adamant to not recast T'Challa, are they also just not have him appear in What If? anymore? He was also played by Chadwick there after all.

I dont agree with their stance of not recasting but I can atleast understand it. But if they refuse to even put him in an annimated spin off that would actually piss me off.

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#144759: Jul 23rd 2022 at 2:24:59 AM

I have said before trying to include Immortal Hulk in the MCU would be silly, but a non-MCU series could work for that.

What If could be an exception to recasting, as plenty of characters already had different voice actors in that. And a non-MCU show would be expected to have a new actor anyway.

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#144760: Jul 23rd 2022 at 6:15:29 AM

Have you guys heard of the latest trademark leaks?

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144761: Jul 23rd 2022 at 6:28:49 AM

[up] Yes, but apparently we are agreeing not to discuss them because spoilers? /shrug

I can’t say I like the idea that HWR has only been culling Kang-specific timelines.

That's not what I said meant. I'm suggesting that there may be a point, far back in the timeline, that serves as the nexus when He Who Remains / Kang originates, and neither he nor the TVA can exercise any power earlier than that point. (There is some basis for this idea in certain time travel concepts in physics, where you cannot travel back in time to before your origin point.)

What this would mean is that the Sacred Timeline is itself only a specific selection of timelines out of a truly infinite multiverse, one in which we have such oddities as everyone being made out of pasta and both the X-Men and Inhumans being canonical.

Now, I could be talking out of my ass and the reason the multiverse is becoming an issue now is that He Who Remains' death has allowed it to diverge, even to the point of the things above. The TVA somehow pruned "pasta-verse" out of the timeline however many billions of years ago it diverged from our own and now it's back.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 23rd 2022 at 10:06:04 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#144762: Jul 23rd 2022 at 6:35:05 AM

B Ut..you have...spoiler tags.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144763: Jul 23rd 2022 at 6:36:30 AM

[up] No one agreed anything. One person said they didn't want to say based on the assumption it would spoil today's announcements. No one else really said anything because we got caught up talking about the things that had been officially announced.

You want to talk about them. Go right ahead. But yeah maybe use spoiler tag until something official is said. (I am not any kind of authority that's just my thoughts.)

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 23rd 2022 at 2:37:27 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144764: Jul 23rd 2022 at 6:45:33 AM

I suggest that we table those potential spoilers until this afternoon's Comic Con panel, which is going to give us some more information about the future of the MCU's live-action properties. It goes live at 20:00 UTC (1 PM PDT, 4 PM EDT).

If they announce projects with the trademarks, they will be open to discussion. If they don't, we can decide if we want to talk about them or not.

There is also a panel on Sunday, but I didn't look at the agenda in detail so I don't know what it's about. I wonder if they are splitting it into film and TV shows.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 23rd 2022 at 9:51:47 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#144765: Jul 23rd 2022 at 7:04:01 AM

Right then.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#144766: Jul 23rd 2022 at 8:10:20 AM

In regard to the earlier discussion about the current poor portrayal of monarchy's in comics. Someone should have character from another country say something like this to a foriegn abolitionist:

Edited by Avenger09 on Jul 23rd 2022 at 5:13:02 PM

uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#144767: Jul 23rd 2022 at 8:18:53 AM

It does make it seem like a lot of Marvel writers never heard of the concept of a constitutional monarchy.

Edited by uncertanSearcher on Jul 23rd 2022 at 5:20:29 PM

ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#144768: Jul 23rd 2022 at 8:23:00 AM

[up][up]To which a response might be...'so there's no Wakandan movement to increase the people's say in who leads them? Even after they were taken over by a murderous outsider who instigated a civil war?'

ETA: Now, it's certainly true that focus should be on their own internal efforts rather than outside efforts to impose changes (which is one reason I'm pretty worried about the upcoming movie, which sure sounds like it's going to be focused everywhere but Wakanda) but I will say pure monarchies are actually pretty rare. Basically every society has multiple power bases. Even Wakanda sort of does, via the tribes.

ETA 2: Also, that steps real close to 'democracy is just too hard for those poor savages, who need a dictator/king to rule them,' which has it's own set of Unfortunate Implications.

Edited by ECD on Jul 23rd 2022 at 8:25:59 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#144769: Jul 23rd 2022 at 8:35:14 AM

Wakanda did move to a constitutional monarchy during Coates’ run

Whether or not kings rock you’d think it’s the best move for T’Challa who often doesn’t even want to be doing his king job.

But in the latest run, or the sleeper agents arc thereof at least, he seemed frustrated that the parliament was requiring his constant input into minor things but also weren’t letting him do what he wanted in major issues. Kind of a worst of both worlds for him.

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 23rd 2022 at 11:35:38 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#144770: Jul 23rd 2022 at 9:59:03 AM

It's a vicious cycle. Some people keep seeing stories where democracy is given the short end of the stick, so they advocate for media that shits on monarchies. The problem is, since this also means making the actual monarchs look like horrible people along the way, it creates backlash in the other direction due to cries of Character Derailment. So eventually these people will prefer stories where monarchies are portrayed a cool and functional. This sometimes leads to enough media portraying Democracy Is Flawed and we just start all over again.

Edited by VeryMelon on Jul 23rd 2022 at 1:46:07 PM

ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#144771: Jul 23rd 2022 at 10:08:14 AM

[up]I think the broader problem starts earlier. A monarch is often expected (narratively) to take direct action, whether it's leading troops, or personal combat. Democratic leaders generally aren't. Which means that there's a tendency to have the monarchs actually be main characters, while democratic leaders almost never are. So there's basically no character reason not to have democracy be evil.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#144772: Jul 23rd 2022 at 11:00:26 AM

Interesting point. I can't think of any kickass mayors or presidents in recent media, much less ones who are also the protagonist.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144773: Jul 23rd 2022 at 11:07:27 AM

Our Presidents Are Different and Action Politician, for your reading perusal.

But folks are enamored with the trappings of royalty (why Princess Protagonist is a thing — your heroine might be cool and smart, but gets to wear pretty dresses and order people around too). Being a lifelong position also makes it more Comic-Book Time-proof.

Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 23rd 2022 at 1:07:49 PM

ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#144774: Jul 23rd 2022 at 11:22:43 AM

[up]That does help, though I point out Ruler Protagonist is basically a giant list of nobles.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144775: Jul 23rd 2022 at 11:49:59 AM

That's sort of self-defining, though, because we rarely talk about a president or prime minister "ruling". Rather, they are typically said to "serve". Ruling very literally translates into "make the rules", and an elected head of state typically has to rely on a parliament for that.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 23rd 2022 at 2:51:00 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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