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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Bizarrely Star Lord T'Challa is prolly the best the character has been written the last several years Cause currently the comics are treating him like he's basically Hitler where everything he does leads to rape camps or intergalactic slave empires being created from his own incompetence
... Holy crap, that bad?
They're basically trying to write him out of 616 because he's no longer going to be in the movies.
It goes without saying that this is leagues more disrespectful to Chadwick Boseman's memory than anything involving a potential recast.
Edited by lbssb on Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:34:40 AM
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonThis doesn't make a lot of sense, given that what we're talking about isn't an original series. This is an adaptation, which means it being an adaptation and what it's adapting will always be important, because of those choices and what they mean for the adaptation itself. What they are choosing to adapt and not to adapt will always be important. Attempting to dismiss people ever bringing it up, and go after people for wanting to talk about it, will not ever really be justifiable as the things being brought up are, indeed, relevant to the discussion.
Cutter is right when he says that not wanting to talk about the comics is not the same as the comics not being relevant. In this case, especially. If they are explicitly choosing not to adapt someone as an Inhuman, but as a mutant, vs the source material, the the source material involving both inhumans and mutants - particularly regarding those characters - are obviously relevant to the discussion.
Fighteer, I do recall this was a problem with you over in the other thread - an intense unwillingness to let anyone make discussion if it so much as even involved the comics, regardless of relevancy, because you didn't want to talk about it. And there was a whole lot of relevancy in that case, as well, mostly for the exact same reason: people wanted to talk about how what the show chose to change and how they chose to portray the things they didn't change affected the way the character was represented. And as a result, ultimately that kind of behvaior was/is not fair to the thread, the people who are in it, or really the subject matter being discussed in the first place.
As such, imo it would be best if we didn't continue to have the same things happen here.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:47:14 AM
They're basically trying to write him out of 616 because he's no longer going to be in the movies.
Oh, for crying out loud - WILL MARVEL STOP TRYING TO ADJUST THEIR COMICS SO THEY MATCH THE MOVIES?!! Each time they do it it makes things more complicated and it rarely sticks around anyway!
See this is why i'm worried that they'll have Khamala suddenly get a power change to match her show.
Also, way to be super disrespectful toward Chadwick Boseman's departure.
Edited by Theokal3 on Jul 22nd 2022 at 1:40:13 PM
Whats worse is that the current treatment of comic T'Challa has been going back since before Boseman's death.
Ya know how Batman regularly gets saddled with that issue of writers being obsessed with deconstruction stories who say he does nothing for the city and he actively makes it worse?
Its even worse for T'Challa, he is stuck in this horrible deconstruction fest where its quite clear that the higher ups at Marvel see him as a problem to be solved and he's being written by writers who appear to actively despise him. Especially because they are adding in a bunch of awful racial allegories that make the entire crapfest of Miles-Thor look quaint at best.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:43:31 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Okay, this I will grant: the comics retconning themselves to be more like the films and TV shows is stupid.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"T'Challa hits really hard a big problem a lot of media nowadays have. I remember someone on the forum once put it really well: modern society loves stories about kings, but we hate stories about monarchies.
T'Challa is a popular, uplifting character of a strong character using his willpower and brains to lead and do great things. He's also famously the leader of an regal but extremely backwards monarchy. Modern writers constantly thus deconstruct Wakanda, taking to task how messed up its system is and constantly having is overthrown and/or mocked by its own people, but because we like the concept of "T'Challa: The King," neither he nor his position as King can ever really go anywhere - so it constantly sticks around to be repeatedly deconstructed and lambasted eternally.
It's similar to how these days Captain America is constantly used to fight against things that are wrong with America, but unlike Steve (who can continue to crow about representing American ideals while making battle with the corruption of American reality), T'Challa can't really be separated from the things being criticized without losing what makes the character most iconic.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:57:06 AM
Yeah its kind of an issue where Marvel is doing a form a stuntcasting, as in they are only allowing high-profile prose writers to write BP. The writer for the last run was Ta-Nehisi Coates and the current writer is John Ridley of 12 Years a Slave fame.
And they only seem interested in doing these incredibly brutal character assassinating depictions of the characters through fucked allegories.
Coates run centered on allegories surrounding Boko Haram, Slave Trade, and African Columbus. The former is where the rape camps came from while the later is basically T'Challa sends some astronauts to space to explore the origins of Vibranium where they proceed to instead colonize and create the biggest slave empire in the universe.
And its all T'Challa's fault, framing him as essentially Black Columbus.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:55:31 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."The funniest thing there is that when T’Challa shows up and discovers the space empire, they panic like dads come home, bean him over the head, and erase his memories before he can get disappointed in them
Forever liveblogging the AvengersOh? May I ask why according to you? Pure curiosity.
Don't get me wrong: I understand the value of brand synergy so that someone reading Captain America #32,657 will get a thrill because Bucky has the robotic arm that he got in Avengers: Infinity War. Or whatever. I'm totally making that up.
My general belief is that writers should be allowed to tell the stories they want without excessive backseat driving from the audience and also without Executive Meddling forcing them to compromise their creative visions.
Now, as I say that, I hear people rising up and saying, "But the MCU is driven by the vision of one man, Kevin Feige, and he hands down Word of God to all his showrunners." Granted, but a cinematic universe benefits from that kind of continuity — we see well enough in the DCEU how badly things can go when nobody talks to anybody else. Also, there are plenty of shows in Disney Marvel that aren't slavishly tied to MCU canon.
I'm very happy with the interpretation of Kamala Khan that we got on screen, but I don't want to suddenly see her retconned in the comic books to have Noor powers. It feels like the bad kind of executive meddling that values brand synergy over creative integrity, as well as a guaranteed way to make comic readers even more mad at the show.
For example, all this talk of how T'Challa is handled in the comics makes me very glad the MCU didn't go that route... although who knows what would have happened if Chadwick Boseman hadn't died. Heck, in his first outing we see the problems with Wakanda brought up and then an effort made to deal with them.
Also, New Asgard has a king and that's not portrayed as a bad thing, although she'd much rather be off fighting alien gods.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 8:03:37 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"It just sounds like they're trying to make their plotlines as controversial as possible to drum up attention in a futile bid to attract readers attention but all they're doing is alienating long time readers and making their comics unappealing to new reeaders,it's kind of sad and reeks of desperation
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverI will say that the space Wakanda story doesn’t quite act like T’Challa is guilty of himself creating the space empire. He didn’t even send the spacetronauts to colonize, it was just an exploratory mission bit they fell through a time wormhole and ended up stranded amidst hostile empires and became one themselves and one upped their neighbors by being awful
Bast gets more and more rightful criticism for abandoning earth Wakanda to hang out in space and didn’t discourage their jackassery
Forever liveblogging the AvengersAnd the current Ridley run is not that good either.
No fucked up allegories though a future issue will introduce a new villain literally named the Colonialist with a head minion named Buffalo Soldier after the Black Calvary regiments in the U.S. army, started with the 10th regiment and expanded into other regiments which from what I hear is a pretty tone deaf thing to do.
The issue is that T'Challa is suffering from the full effect of badass decay. He has lost all his genius and intelligence being constantly outsmarted. He is outright weaker showing none of the physical abilities he previously has, getting his ass kicked by even Hatute Zraze and has to be constantly saved every issue.
And no issue can go without anyone badmouthing T'Challa. Barring Shuri everyone in the book despises him, the Dora Milaje have betrayed him (to the point of abandoning Wakanda and holding up in the Jabari Land that they conquered), Storm regards him as a terrible husband and will never forgive him for his lies, and every single Wakandan does not have a nice word to say about him blaming every single problem on them including Prime Minister Folsade whose arrogance lead to HZ charging an insurrection but she proceeds to blame T'Challa for her fuck ups anyway.
T'Challa is officially despised by everyone in his country who regard him as a horrible tyrant no different than Doctor Doom and want him either dead or gone from Wakanda forever. And future solicits and the announcement of the Wakanda mini-series reveal that T'Challa will officially be kicked out of Wakanda, meaning he's being exiled from his own home.
Edited by slimcoder on Jul 22nd 2022 at 5:10:00 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."That happens to him so much
Poor guy
At least Shuri likes him. Back in her own panther days she hated him
Forever liveblogging the AvengersIt is true, Fighteer, that there is a persistent issue with your posts across multiple completely unrelated subjects in which you constantly attempt to reduce it to an "us" or "them" problem when it's clear the common denominator between all of these things is you going out of your way to read everyone else's posts in the most bad-faith way possible, which suggests the issue is more down to you trying to force the thread to go in the way you want it.
I was not present in the Ms Marvel thread to know what the big discourse was, and frankly I don't care as I expect it to have been stupid and inane. But even so, I thought I made it pretty clear that my comment was one of relative neutrality. I've also expressed tolerance for and actively defended adaptational changes in these threads often enough that you should know better than to strawman me as one of those They Changed It, So It Sucks types. That you still proceeded to interpret my post and people's agreement with it as somehow being screeds against adaptational deviation suggests your involvement in this topic is not being done in good faith, and I do not appreciate having my statements being so flagrantly misinterpreted and transformed into a windmill to rail against because a poster who already has a history of turning arguments into ones that are overly personal cannot let them go. There is a rather broad middle road between slavish loyalty to the comics and outright changing things for little reason other than misplaced spite for the source material, you know.
But yes, as Known Unknown pointed out, in addition to the fact that the MCU is inherently adaptational and thus relies on the expectation of at least some degree of resemblance to the source material, "Synergy" is a massive problem where Disney is increasingly reducing the comics into movie plotline incubators at the expense of basic narrative integrity and thus any change the MCU makes, both good and bad, has the potential danger of being back-imported into the comics whether it even fits with the comics portrayals or not.
Anyway, I had heard about the retcons to Wakanda but I had no idea it went this far or that they kept going despite the backlash. Holy hell.
Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 22nd 2022 at 8:16:31 AM
Fingers crossed that it hopefully doesn't still happen.
If Doom and Namor are really going to be major characters in BP 2, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up with a "we're Not So Different from those other oppressive monarchs" aesop and invented a bunch of nasty things Wakanda's done to justify the message.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 22nd 2022 at 5:14:54 AM

Poor T’Challa. He didn’t even want to be here today.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers