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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#144651: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:00:56 PM

I think What If? is the worst Disney+ MCU show by a wide margin, so it getting a second and even a third season isn't very exciting to me.

Hopefully they get better writers, at least.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144652: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:01:37 PM

I never actually finished it because I wasn't a fan of the art style and voice acting.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#144653: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:04:19 PM

[up][up][up][up]I'm getting a bit tired to tell you that this isn't about comic book accuracy.

But to answer you, no, they don't steal each other's theme. The Inhumans were shoved into the role of Mutants during the Inhumania, but they did have their own niche before that; Namely, their story was one about a royal family of a strange superpowered secret nation with political conflicts and backstabbing. Basically Games of Thrones with superpowers. Like it or not, i think we can agree that's a very different theme than X-Men.

Edited by Theokal3 on Jul 22nd 2022 at 1:05:04 PM

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144654: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:04:30 PM

[up]×3

It seems other viewers thought differently since it's getting a second and third season.

Edited by Cortez on Jul 22nd 2022 at 7:04:51 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#144655: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:06:47 PM

I for one enjoyed What If, except for the Zombie's episodes. But that is because I've always hated Marvel Zombies and I'm not very partial to Zombies in general.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144657: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:08:38 PM

Though I admit, I'm not totally sure what the Inhuman's thing was before Executive Meddling tried to make them into diet X-Men.

In fairness, the idea of the Kree running around messing with everyone's DNA in secret could make a fairly compelling origin story for a new crop of supers if handled well, although I can see why it might overlap a bit with the X-Men. "Any random person could develop superpowers if they get hit with this weird mist." "Any random person could develop superpowers when they reach puberty or have a traumatic experience."

As stretches go, you don't really need Reed Richards to see the similarity.

Not uhhhh really the point here.

Then what is the point here? All over the Internet there is this swirling miasma (dare I say "mist") of generalized nerd anxiety that the Inhumans aren't going to be showing up in the MCU. It congealed into a massive online hate boner for Ms. Marvel, although I acknowledge there are other aspects to that as well, and now it seems to be generating bursts of anxiety over the decision to adapt the X-Men instead (or at least mutants in general).

I'm getting a bit tired to tell you that this isn't about comic book accuracy.

But it feels like it is to me, because I don't see any obvious reason to prefer Inhumans over Mutants (or vice versa) except loyalty to a previous iteration of them that is obviously not going to be MCU canon.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#144658: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:09:18 PM

I didn't mind the art style but the writing was so... bleh.

Like, when I say "fanficcy" I'm not talking about the fact that it's what-if scenarios. That's fine, it's the whole premise of the show, after all.

When I say "fanficcy" I mean the plots and dialogue feel like they were written by 14-year-olds with no editors, no sense of character voice/behavior, and absolutely no sense of pacing. Everything is just "Wouldn't it be cool if X happened instead of Y?" and then failing to actually justify it or make it interesting.

Like, do you really expect me to believe that T'challa is just so charismatic he was able to recruit Thanos to his side? Or that Doctor Strange, a man whose films depict him as willing to make hard decisions and sacrifice the lives of others if it's for the greater good, would literally destroy the universe just to save one person he can't let go of? Or that Vision would betray everybody to feed zombie Wanda yet then immediately revert allegiance after maybe two seconds of reconsideration?

I guess the more cartoonish elements are because, well, it's a cartoon, but that's not really an excuse when it's supposed to be a canon part of the MCU. Even Iron Fist S1 is better written than What If?.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#144659: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:09:36 PM

Is mist worse than miasma or is it lateral?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#144661: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:13:40 PM

Again, people wanted inhumans to be turned into mutants not out of a love of the character, but so they could secretly lead into X-Men. We saw this with Wandavision, where everything they did there was allegedly supposed to start mutants into the MCU.

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144662: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:14:55 PM

Then what is the point here? All over the Internet there is this swirling miasma (dare I say "mist") of generalized nerd anxiety that the Inhumans aren't going to be showing up in the MCU. It congealed into a massive online hate boner for Ms. Marvel, although I acknowledge there are other aspects to that as well, and now it seems to be generating bursts of anxiety over the decision to adapt the X-Men instead (or at least mutants in general).

Maybe stop tilting at windmills and whatever nebulous stuff you see on the internet at large and actually engage with what people actually said in the thread?

Eta: to whit some pretty mild specilation if another minor inhuman would be a mutant without putting any particular value judgement on whether that would be a good thing or not.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:16:39 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#144663: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:16:30 PM

I feel like coming at this debate about mutants and Inhumans (or any debate about comic book film adaptions) with a perspective of "I think the source material is completely worthless" is a non-starter, Fighteer. You have made pretty clear that you don't know the source material(which is not a problem) and seems to actively disdain its existence or even people talking about it (which sort of is, when the topic is adaptating it).

It generates a sort of awkward scenario where people just discussing elements kept or dropped gets met with the same refrain: "No one cares about your stupid comics, shut up", just put in a nicer way. It's a non-starter.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144664: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:17:25 PM

Like, do you really expect me to believe that T'challa is just so charismatic he was able to recruit Thanos to his side?

Yes. He is more charismatic than MCU Quull.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144665: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:17:30 PM

[up][up]Well, then give me a reason why I should care. I'm a fan of this stuff too.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 7:17:43 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144666: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:19:01 PM

It's not about you.

If you don't care about the comics aspect that's fine, just leave the people who do want to talk about it alone.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#144667: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:19:20 PM

[up][up][up] Many would consider that a low bar to clear, really. But that's the thing about unbelievable charisma, I guess.

Edited by Blueace on Jul 22nd 2022 at 7:19:34 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144668: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:21:12 PM

Its kind of an awkward thing when the current Krakoa era has the X-Men dipping into the whole kingdom web of politics Game of Thrones stuff that was originally the Inhumans thing on an even larger scale

Man Pearlmutter destroyed the Inhumans

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#144669: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:22:13 PM

Yes. He is more charismatic than MCU Quull.

In addition, Thanos's plan isn't just evil, it's evil and stupid. T'Challa, meanwhile, is a very smart person.

So the idea that Thanos could be thwarted by having someone sit down and explain Economics 101 to him had been kicked around in the fandom for a while when that episode aired, and T'Challa is just such a person to do so. Notably, Thanos didn't abandon his goals; He just became less stupid about it.

T'Challa's Ravagers are Robin Hood types. They steal from the rich and give to the poor. In other words, they forcibly redistribute hoarded resources to the needy. Remind me, what was Thanos's major qualm around which his whole motives revolved?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:22:42 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144670: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:22:54 PM

If you don't care about the comics aspect that's fine, just leave the people who do want to talk about it alone.

Mate, it doesn't work that way. You don't get to have your little private debates about the comics and shut everyone else out because they don't "get it". Or maybe you can start a thread for "Marvel Cinematic Universe (Comic Fans Only)".

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 22nd 2022 at 7:23:30 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144671: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:23:20 PM

I didn't like Star Lord T'Challa but it was obviously a tongue in cheek Parody Sue thing not a serious 'this is a plausible AU' thing.

Obviously ymmv on whether that's good or not.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#144672: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:25:11 PM

But it feels like it is to me, because I don't see any obvious reason to prefer Inhumans over Mutants (or vice versa) except loyalty to a previous iteration of them that is obviously not going to be MCU canon.

It's not preferring Mutants or Inhumans. We're just expressing irritation that Marvel went overboard in the other direction. Ideally we'd prefer both franchises to be treated fairly. Also Inhumans already showed up in the MCU. Even if we don't count Agents of SHIELD and the dreadful Inhuman show, Black Bolt was in Dr Strange 2.

Then what is the point here? All over the Internet there is this swirling miasma (dare I say "mist") of generalized nerd anxiety that the Inhumans aren't going to be showing up in the MCU. It congealed into a massive online hate boner for Ms. Marvel, although I acknowledge there are other aspects to that as well, and now it seems to be generating bursts of anxiety over the decision to adapt the X-Men instead (or at least mutants in general).

Snort Trust me, of all the reasons people have to hate Ms Marvel not including her Inhuman origin is NOT the source. It's an excuse at best. In my opinion that hate boner exists because there is a huge bunch of assholes on the Internet who were getting ready to hate the show ahead of time by virtue of it being "woke" or some bullshit like that. I'd recommand paying these people no mind.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#144673: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:25:45 PM

Bizarrely Star Lord T'Challa is prolly the best the character has been written the last several years

Cause currently the comics are treating him like he's basically Hitler where everything he does leads to rape camps or intergalactic slave empires being created from his own incompetence

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#144674: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:25:46 PM

[up][up][up][up]And you don't get to shut down any comics related discussion just because you don't like it.

If you want to know about comics go look them up, we're not obligated to do it for you.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jul 22nd 2022 at 12:26:26 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144675: Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:29:15 PM

Even if we don't count Agents of SHIELD and the dreadful Inhuman show, Black Bolt was in Dr Strange 2.

And so was Professor X, very deliberately set up to be non-canon to the 616 MCU. As has been clearly established, that doesn't count, although I admit that the tease must have seemed fairly cruel to Inhumans fans.

And you don't get to shut down any comics related discussion just because you don't like it.

Again, that's not how it works. Nobody is saying to shut down comics related discussion, we are saying to make some room for the people who want to talk about the MCU for itself, not for its relationship to other things. We do have an entire comics subforum. You aren't being censored.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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