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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#141101: Apr 3rd 2022 at 9:26:34 PM

[up] No. Just... No. That would be the absolute worst idea in the world, and would be nothing short of a PR disaster.

If Marvel actually does that, I think I might just throw a chair.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Apr 3rd 2022 at 9:27:24 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#141102: Apr 3rd 2022 at 9:37:26 PM

I have a decent amount of faith in the creator of this version of Secret Invasion that I think they'll probably keep it small stakes, in terms of the larger MCU, but have it feel like bigger stakes within the confines of the miniseries.

Fury's a good way to do that, and I definitely expect Dermot Mulroney's character to be a Skrull at some point, even if its only temporary.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#141103: Apr 3rd 2022 at 9:40:37 PM

I think the MCU has enough coordination (much more than the comics, anyhow) to pull off the Skrull plot. But if you want "this character being a Skrull is a earth-shattering revelation" you've come to the wrong place because that's pretty much never in the cards for good except in very limited cases.

The Skrull thing, as far as I see it, works best as a sort of facilitator for Closed Circle cloak-and-dagger double agent stories. Heel–Face Revolving Door is harder to pull off, so "a shapeshifter has taken over (x) character" is the comic book solution. Set-ups where the heroes learn that Skrulls are out and about about and now have to play psychological cat-and-mouse to guess which (if any) of them is actually a shapeshifter, looking over their shoulder and mistrusting one another while battling some more obvious evil and having to grapple with that possibility one of them might be sabotaging things from within (until things inevitably boil over sheer, rarified paranoia). It's basically ground for superhero And Then There Were None shenanigans rather than anything. In the end the originals return, but the paranoia lingers.

Edited by Gaon on Apr 3rd 2022 at 9:41:31 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#141104: Apr 3rd 2022 at 9:58:39 PM

With the Fantastic Four arriving soon, that does open up the door for Super Skrull.

Really the Super Skrulls in general would be an interesting addition.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#141105: Apr 3rd 2022 at 10:06:03 PM

I remember someone on here mentioning that the Fantastic Four are more science-based heroes rather than what the Avengers are/were. Curious how the MCU will adapt them.

Also, with Jon Watts being in charge of those guys as well, perhaps we'll get to see MCU Spider-Man form that friendship with the family like in previous incarnations. That'd be pretty neat.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#141106: Apr 3rd 2022 at 10:08:09 PM

That'll also depend on who they get to write. Watts had little to do, if anything, with the script of the Holland Spiderman movies.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#141107: Apr 3rd 2022 at 10:30:49 PM

How strong are regular comic Skrulls? Because regular MCU Skrulls are pretty strong, as we saw in the first half of Captain Marvel.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#141108: Apr 3rd 2022 at 11:07:27 PM

[up][up][up] Tbh, the big difference in how the Four are is that they're more adventure heroes than traditional superheroes. They're best put into stories about them exploring and/or getting lost in amazing and fantastical locales and situations, less "a bunch of people get superpowers, and band together to fight evil" stories.

Them being science heroes factors into it. The Fantastic Four are explorers, and are best written accordingly.


As for Secret Invasion, I could see pretty much all of these things happening, possibly in order:

  • A named and recognizable character is revealed to have been a Skrull all along, which changes nothing since the average Skrulls in the MCU are good guys. Like Tobias mentioned, it'd just be a case of an alien trying to make their way on Earth.
  • The plot kicks off for real when a random minor character - say, the king/president/whatever of a country Fury and co are involved with - is revealed to be a Skrull. The public goes nuts because they don't know aliens live among them, but to Fury the problem isn't that they're a Skrull, it's that they're not supposed'' to be a Skrull. There's another faction of Skrulls not doing what the others have agreed to.
  • An important character introduced in Secret Invasion itself is revealed to be an evil Skrull towards the end: that's our big Skrull twist. Think Alastor Moody / Barty Crouch.
  • A major character is revealed to have been replaced by a Skrull after the events of their last movie/show, but before Secret Invasion. As Tobias noted, it's unlikely Secret Invasion will be retconning anything (tbh, the way they chose to end the Infinity Saga makes it especially difficult). Think Skrull Cap from The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 3rd 2022 at 11:18:45 AM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#141109: Apr 3rd 2022 at 11:17:35 PM

Points 2 and 3 of that tie into what I mentioned earlier about Mulroney's character, who I expect to be replaced by a Skrull during the miniseries, maybe before or in the middle of the proper action.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#141110: Apr 4th 2022 at 6:20:28 AM

The biggest asset that the Fantastic Four offer to the Marvel Universe is two-fold: 1) Reed Richards is pretty much the go-to science guy for whatever super-science needs sciencing, and 2) worldbuilding. Due to the aforementioned thing about them being explorer heroes, they do a phenomenal job of expanding the universe and introducing new characters and concepts to the sandbox for other Marvel properties to use.

Galactus and his myriad Heralds, the Skrull Empire, Dr. Doom, and the Negative Zone are all fairly high-profile elements of the overarching Marvel Universe that were first introduced through the First Family.

They're not especially interesting as characters compared to a lot of other Marvel properties, but they pave the road for some of the most fascinating cosmic nonsense that the franchise has to offer. Since the MCU is trying to move into high cosmic shit with the Eternals and the Multiverse and all that, trailblazers like the Fantastic Four could put in a lot of work for that.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 4th 2022 at 6:21:13 AM

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#141111: Apr 4th 2022 at 7:03:07 AM

Honestly, I'm convinced Dr. Doom will play a major bad guy role moving forward once he's formally introduced.

Maybe this generation's Thanos?

Like a lot of people mistake him as strictly a Fantastic Four bad guy, but it's more accurate to call him a Big Bad for the Marvel universe as a whole.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#141112: Apr 4th 2022 at 7:04:49 AM

But his personal connection is still mostly with the FF.

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HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#141113: Apr 4th 2022 at 7:08:33 AM

Doom is deeper than that - he's a villain without a doubt, but he's also far too complex a person to reduce to a simple one-and-done arc villain. I see him starting as a movie or arc villain and then progressing to an uneasy detente with the heroes where he'll leave them alone as long as they stay out of his business, and they'll leave him alone as long as he doesn't do anything wild, and they may eventually unite against a common threat (because Doom is affected just as much as they are and he has to live here too) as so often happens in the comics.

I could see him eventually getting the same treatment as Namor - someone they strongly dislike and don't like having around, but grudgingly tolerate because it's just easier that way.

Edited by HasturHasturHastur on Apr 4th 2022 at 7:17:36 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#141114: Apr 4th 2022 at 7:08:43 AM

I really like the Fantastic 4 by themselves, and I think they deserve another chance to get it right. Most of the F4 cartoons are fantastic, those are what you should watch if you want an idea of what a good F4 movie will look like.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#141115: Apr 4th 2022 at 7:30:13 AM

and they may eventually unite against a common threat (because Doom is affected just as much as they are and he has to live here too) as so often happens in the comics.

Only if he inevitably tries to take whatever greater enemy's power for himself and backstab the heroes. I really hate the more sympathetic portrayals of Doom, which inevitably brings in the Draco in Leather Pants fans claiming he's actually the good guy. So I'd like it to be clear he is still a truly evil person in the end.

HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#141116: Apr 4th 2022 at 7:39:15 AM

[up]Only if he thinks he can pull it off and either come out on top or handle the consequences, or it's a prime opportunity to get one up on Reed - I don't want to see Doom grab a Villain Ball without a damn good reason. It's absolutely something he would do and has done many times, but I'd like to see a highly competent Doom who doesn't do stupid things just because it's an opportunity to do something villainous, and if he does fuck up, it's either because he failed to account for something, bet wrong on a variable, or was blinded by his desire to upstage Reed and didn't think things through.

In short, Doom as an evil genius who is totally self-serving (aside from his genuine love for his country and heritage - I totally agree with the fancasting of Jesus Castro, because Doom being of Romani heritage should be a meaningful trait), but is also pragmatic and doesn't do things without a good reason (unless it has something to do with Reed).

Edited by HasturHasturHastur on Apr 4th 2022 at 7:41:15 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#141117: Apr 4th 2022 at 7:58:06 AM

Could be something like the recent guardians of the galaxy run where Doom joined the team in saving the universe but it was revealed to the reader at the end that he had his hand in causing the threat and in true Doom fashion he walked away after stealing power from a bigger guy

He didn’t immediately cause trouble with the power he stole, he decided to bide his time

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#141118: Apr 4th 2022 at 8:06:02 AM

[up]That would work, Doom is smart enough to not just go buck wild the minute he gains a huge power boost. I think his core character should be mostly the same: a brilliant man who excels at basically everything he does, and has everything he could ever want, but just refuses to let go of his massive well of animus towards Reed Richards and constant need to get one up on him despite having nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose from keeping it. Reed's whole thing is that he would start off as an Elon Musk-esque douchebag fame-whoring genius, fall victim to his own hubris (the cosmic ray exposure) and then get humiliated by Doom, and then he would have his epiphany about what an unlikable asshole he is and how Doom was 100% right about a lot of things, and then puts in the work to become a better person, while Doom stays the same person and is unable to grow beyond that.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#141119: Apr 4th 2022 at 8:45:54 AM

Just had a thought about Secret Invasion: since they've established the Skrulls currently living on Earth as good guys, what if the series is about them fighting a different group of shapeshifting aliens who are trying to conquer Earth?

Marvel may no longer own Rom the Space Knight, but I think they can still use the Dire Wraiths.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#141120: Apr 4th 2022 at 8:46:22 AM

That could work.

It would also add a lot to Reed's desire to see Doom reform as well.

He knows Doom is as smart as, if not smarter in some places than him. If Doom could put away his grudge against Reed, he could truly make the world a better place, because it was Doom who made Reed see how awful he himself was.

He's constantly depressed by Doom's refusal to let go of his grudge, because he's baffled by why Doom can't change when he did.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#141121: Apr 4th 2022 at 8:49:59 AM

Or Space Phantoms!

Haha just kidding. No one wants the Space Phantoms.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#141122: Apr 4th 2022 at 8:51:06 AM

[up]

Oh yeah? Well challenge accepted!

I now want the Space Phantoms.

One Strip! One Strip!
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#141123: Apr 4th 2022 at 8:52:01 AM

With the impending introduction of the X-Men, how about the Brood or the Technarchy, or maybe have them as one of many races fleeing a Shi'ar invasion or pogrom from D'Ken?

[up][up][up]That's definitely something that should be a feature. Reed's take on the whole thing is basically "dude, you rose from nothing to eventually ruling an entire damn country by deposing its old ruler and it's gone from a shithole post-Soviet kleptocracy to having one of the highest standards of living in the entire world, you're probably outdoing even Stark with all your inventions, you're almost as good a sorcerer as Strange, everything you touch turns to gold, and you have more money, fame, and prestige than God, why the fuck are you still so obsessed with me? I've owned up to my part in that whole thing and tried to make amends and repair the damage I've caused, and still you do half the things you do just to upstage me. Why can't we just be at peace?". Reed becomes a way less self-absorbed and more pleasant person, while Doom is still the same Bond villain/swaggering, grandstanding douchebag he was back when he had his big falling-out with Reed.

Perhaps it could be something where Reed was actually a hero and a huge inspiration for Doom and (real or perceived) betrayal or mistreatment by Reed created a "don't meet your heroes/kill your idols" motivation for Doom, sort of like what would have happened if Peter had never grown to understand why Tony placed so many restrictions on him and was as harsh as he was.

Edited by HasturHasturHastur on Apr 4th 2022 at 9:07:23 AM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#141124: Apr 4th 2022 at 8:54:23 AM

Hasbro would definitely own the Dire Wraiths as they're tied into the original Rom concept. Marvel should in theory own the rest of the Space Knights though the whole bit with James Gunn about Bug has me doubting a lot of that Common Knowledge.

Incidentally MCU Runaways turned Xavin into a Xartan, possibly to not step on any toes with Skrulls.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#141125: Apr 4th 2022 at 1:11:30 PM

Hasbro owns the name and concept of the Dire Wraiths, but Marvel owns the design (hence why they look so different in IDW's reboot of ROM) and has an alternate name to call them ("Nazgoth") since those originated from the comics, not the toy or its commercial. Theoretically, Marvel could still have an offshoot of the Skrulls (which Hasbro has no claim to) with the design that they own and exclusively call them Nazgoth (or, failing that, just call them "anti-Skrulls" or something), and it could still be considered lawyer-friendly.

And if they can't (or if Disney refuses to let them, for fear of having to deal with the lawyers and/or ruin their business relationship with Hasbro), maybe they could throw in a cheeky reference to a bunch of weird-looking Skrulls who went missing around Galador (which Marvel does own for sure, forcing IDW to rename ROM's homeworld as Elonia).

Edited by TrashJack on Apr 4th 2022 at 4:11:54 AM

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