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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#140876: Mar 23rd 2022 at 7:26:03 PM

Yeah, more than a bit.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140877: Mar 23rd 2022 at 7:29:16 PM

This is a DC thing but I also wonder if they still would have made the Red Son animated movie had all this happened before.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140878: Mar 23rd 2022 at 7:43:40 PM

War looks like war. In other news, water is made of water and the color red is colored red.

Any adequate depiction of contemporary warfare on-screen is going to resemble real-world wars. There's nothing you can do about that short of never depicting war in media, which is an absurd limitation.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#140879: Mar 23rd 2022 at 7:46:52 PM

I think it's more that the location and culture depicted is very similar.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140880: Mar 23rd 2022 at 7:51:59 PM

[up][up] I feel it's less about the war itself, and more about whether people will be willing to see positive portrayals of Russia and its government at the moment.

On the bright side, much of Marvel's slate for this year has nothing connecting to Russia, so maybe it's just a matter of waiting this thing out from their perspective, if possible.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#140881: Mar 23rd 2022 at 8:08:15 PM

So, wait a year or more to see Yelena again?

Wake me up at your own risk.
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#140882: Mar 23rd 2022 at 8:38:02 PM

[up][up]Did we watch the same movie? I've got my problems with the MCU's portrayals of any sort of organization which isn't made up entirely of superheroes, but their presentation of the Russian government was very definitely not positive. We have a tiny handful of positive depictions of defectors, but that's a very different thing.

Now, I do think they'll avoid any stories with him for a while, but more to avoid any controversy than any other reason.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140883: Mar 23rd 2022 at 9:21:26 PM

[up] Well, we have a dude whose entire schtick is that he's the USSR's equivalent of Captain America, and he's portrayed as a good guy. And considering that a certain someone has said he wants to bring that nation back, I'm not sure if a Red Guardian comeback would be popular right now.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#140884: Mar 24th 2022 at 12:25:38 AM

Though he was treated poorly by his government.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#140885: Mar 24th 2022 at 12:54:22 AM

For the idea of the "average mutant," the films could just introduce Beak. He's visibly not a normal human and his mutations make him far from super. But he has the exact kind of mutations that would see him mistreated by the public despite being just a really great guy.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#140886: Mar 24th 2022 at 1:29:38 AM

Re: Magneto. One has to keep in mind that in his original depictions, Magneto was not supposed to come across as sympathetic or having a point. Him being a Jewish holocaust survivor came much later.

This is ultimately what trips writers up when it comes to Magneto. You have a guy who was created to be a one dimensional villain a d was revamped into something more complex. But you can't kill him off or give him a heel face turn that sticks. So they keep upping the ante with him and we get stories like him setting of an emp across the planet or herding people into ovens. Because he was meant to be a villain and Marvel will remind people of that.

The best way for the films to handle Magneto is to either not use him as a villain or not use him at all. The xmen have other villains anyway.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140887: Mar 24th 2022 at 1:34:35 AM

I'm reminded that Grant Morrison's New X-Men run had Magneto go full villain again as a throwback to his original Silver Age status as a villain.

And uhhhh he certainly does some villainous stuff like turning New York into a massive concentration camp.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 24th 2022 at 1:34:50 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#140888: Mar 24th 2022 at 6:45:49 AM

I mean, in the comics at least, Magneto has been a consistent Anti-Hero (sometimes at worst borderline Anti-Villain) for years now.

It's just the adaptations that keep portraying him as a villain.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#140889: Mar 24th 2022 at 6:53:29 AM

Well, we have a dude whose entire schtick is that he's the USSR's equivalent of Captain America, and he's portrayed as a good guy. And considering that a certain someone has said he wants to bring that nation back, I'm not sure if a Red Guardian comeback would be popular right now.

I think that's apples and grapes. For one, Putin's Russia and the USSR are pretty different even if the former brings up the latter for brownie points. Red Guardian was mistreated by his government and (much like Captain) is evidently "loyal to nothing...except the dream". He comments at one point in the film his allegiance was to the ideals of the Soviet Union but the party lost its way.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#140890: Mar 24th 2022 at 7:54:48 AM

I would agree that there might be some difficulty in including Red Guardian in the future because there would be an obvious question about how he feels about Putin's policies.

Incidentally, the Black Widow movie alludes to Dreykov as having some connection to Putin but also shows him posing with Bill Clinton. Depending on how you look at it, this is either to maintain plausible deniability or else is alluding to conspiracy theories about Jeffrey Epstein. Maybe both.

I have some ambivalence about Red Guardian as a character, because while he's in many ways sympathetic and well-intentioned, he seems to lack some of Steve's goodness. And I'm not sure how much this is because of him knowingly working for less good people versus his own personal flaws.

Like it's pretty unforgivable that Alexei turns over Natasha and Yelena to the Red Room/knows about the Red Room and does nothing about it. And the movie leaves room for the audience to infer that Alexei ended up imprisoned for some kind of moral stand on his part, but textually suggests it's a combination of Alexei's egomania coupled with him knowing too much.

Edited by Hodor2 on Mar 24th 2022 at 10:03:12 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#140891: Mar 24th 2022 at 8:01:26 AM

I think Alexei is a generally decent guy but he's also pretty dim. In the film proper it seems like he simply had 0 idea how the Red Room actually worked.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#140892: Mar 24th 2022 at 8:27:38 AM

IIRC he thought it was a mark of pride that both of his daughters were top tier graduates of the Red Room and was utterly gleeful at the 'Red in their ledgers' not realizing or knowing how much pain that left both women in

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#140893: Mar 24th 2022 at 8:56:39 AM

Yeah. I think that in addition to having some of the same flaws as Steve (i.e. impulsiveness and a tendency to self-righteousness), but without Steve's intelligence, Alexei also has the flaw of believing in My Country, Right or Wrong.

So it's like he is smart and moral enough to understand that there's something wrong about the Red Room, but since he can't reconcile it with his patriotism, he just decides to ignore it.

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#140894: Mar 24th 2022 at 9:28:54 AM

A Nova project is officially in development.

It's unknown if it's for a feature length or a Disney+ series.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140895: Mar 24th 2022 at 9:38:35 AM

[up] Yay, more cosmic stuff!

Side note, I think it'll be a big missed opportunity if Marvel doesn't use any VNV Nation music for the trailer and/or series.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#140896: Mar 24th 2022 at 9:44:57 AM

Is it fine if we have stuff on the franchise page not officially announced but through a credited source like Deadline? I've been debating adding back in Werewolf by Night for months. [lol]

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#140897: Mar 24th 2022 at 9:55:34 AM

[up] You mean the "untitled" Halloween special? I don't see why not, considering the page catalogs upcoming works, and it has a director attached.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#140898: Mar 24th 2022 at 10:51:12 AM

Great to hear about Nova. Looking forward to it.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140899: Mar 24th 2022 at 10:59:31 AM

I'm still surprised that we've got Michael Giacchino of all people directing this Halloween special. Not scoring it, but actually directing it. Talk about Playing Against Type, huh?

Also, what exactly is so special about Werewolf By Night again? I mean, don't all werewolves turn into werewolves at night? What makes this one different from the rest?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#140900: Mar 24th 2022 at 11:01:20 AM

He has a dog name, which makes it extra funny

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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