Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
In general, the MCU tends to forego the philosophy that power corrupts. That the gaining of power makes good people go bad.
Instead, the MCU favors the idea that power reveals. That the gaining of power allows a person to more fully express the kind of person they already were on a larger scale.
Nowhere is "Power Reveals" more clearly illustrated than the Super-Soldier Serum, which has that explicitly as its central metaphysic.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
Neither of those fit the trope (which is rife with misuse, but that's another conversation). The trope is "character born to humble beginnings grows to infamy".
Killmonger is an indirect heir one of the most powerful nations on the earth. When given the option, he chose a life of adversity and violence, and if his father hadn't been killed he still would have had that choice-to either join his father's uprising, or if both had been brought back to Wakanda, to fight there. He likely would have been a War Dog, at the very least. For Killmonger, "the only easy day was yesterday", indeed.
And then you have Zemo, a member of European aristocracy who also ran a covert death squad.
Unless they changed the definition of "normal" while I was asleep, neither qualify by a long shot.
And now having watched Eternals, I'm all caught up on the MCU. It was good. Not super hype-inducing or anything, but definitely not as boring as some said it was. I can definitely believe Chloe Zhao dabbles in fanfic, though, haha.
Unrelatedly, Karun is the best character in the film.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Following on from what Tobias Drake said, it's an interesting point and one that No Way Home also seemed to focus on. None of the "bad guys" were THAT bad until they were empowered, which immediately seemed to draw out their very worst side, so all of them remained fairly sympathetic to differing degrees (depending on how much you see "The Goblin" as a completely separate individual from Norman Osborne.)
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."![]()
I feel like I'm of a very small minority who did not like Karun at all in Eternals. I thought Kingo was fine, but Karun I thought was just an irritating Flat Character who had no reason to be in the film for as long as he was, other than to make unnecessary jokes.
I'm usually not adverse to the MCU's humor, especially since I thought Thor: Ragnarok was a damn fun adventure. But I dunno, Karun just didn't stick the landing for me.
I thought the rest of the film was alright, if a bit bizarre.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Mar 21st 2022 at 7:16:47 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."I like that he had some actual pathos to him, compared to other, flatter comic relief like Darcy, Korg, or Ned. The reminders that he's an ordinary human who will actually be affected by the Eternals' success or failure adds some poignancy to him that the others kinda lack.
Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Mar 21st 2022 at 5:20:35 AM
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I did like that Karun presided over Gilgamesh's cremation. Sad that they didn't go into more depth with that aspect of his character.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
I'll give you credit that his farewell to the Eternals was very sweet, and important for the reasons you said. But that was literally the only part of him that I actually liked.
![]()
![]()
I've enjoyed Korg quite a bit so far, in part because he doesn't get too much screen time to the point of being tiring. It also helps that he actually has a reason to accompany Thor on his journey back to Asgard, and it also pays off on Thor's end since Korg and the survivors of Sakaar help in the fights against Hela and Thanos.
Darcy admittedly wasn't that great in the Thor films, but she at least proved her merit in WandaVision by helping S.W.O.R.D figure out how to tune into Wanda's broadcast and help with ways to breach the Hex.
Ned is fundamental for establish Peter's setting as an Ordinary High-School Student in a special school, and his difficulty supporting his friend can be justified as being an Ordinary High-School Student who doesn't really know how to help Peter in the world of superheroes. But at least he tries to assist him, whether it be the guy-in-the-chair, or trying to use the sling ring.
Karun gets way too much screentime than necessary, contributes nothing to the story outside of helping introduce Kingo in the modern day, and has literally no reason to be in the story outside of said introduction, minus having an irritating Running Gag (one that Homecoming did better as part of its intro to boot).
I don't think he's the worst character ever made, but I'm nonetheless not a huge fan of the guy.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Mar 21st 2022 at 2:45:17 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."Karun just kind of exists and thus I have no real opinion on him. Again, if they had leaned more into how he's palling around with mythological inspirations and how that affects his religious beliefs, that would have been really neat.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my TumblrI liked Karun more than I thought I would. To begin with I thought it was very neat that the token representaive of mankind is an Indian hindu rather than "wise-cracking american guy from Chicago or some shit". He's not the best character ever but I thought he was endearing, and he has a couple of highlights (praying at the funeral and his goodbye to the eternals).
"All you Fascists bound to lose."This is going to sound odd, but I felt like the movie needed more characters like Karun and less Eternals. With only a single human character among the main cast, the “trolley problem” debate to sacrifice Earth is far too abstract. It’s hard to picture billions of people, easier to sympathize with a few we see in front of us. Chloé Zhao’s main talent in her prior films has been mining great performances out of random people who have never been onscreen, and I think the film instead centering on gathering a bunch of famous actors who serve to be little more than 3rd act batteries diminished the opportunity for more humanity in the story.
I kind of wished Dane would've accompanied the team, since he's basically the main human connection for Sersi, who's the protagonist of the film. He might've served as a nice Audience Surrogate... although I hesitate to think what he would've done to help out, since he's not Black Knight yet.
And yeah, I know. "Can't have a movie without a white guy for the audience to relate too!
" I'm not saying he had to have a large role, just be the guy to ask questions about the Eternals that the audience might be having and have a character who really has something to lose if they don't stop Tiamut from destroying the Earth.
Granted, that'd take something away from the Eternals themselves, which is what the movie is about. I dunno, I'm just spitballing here.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Mar 21st 2022 at 7:12:50 AM
Yeah, he just vanishes after the plot leaves London.
Also, speaking of the London part of the film: there were people in that bus that got turned into rose petals, right? Where did they go?
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr"Instead, the MCU favors the idea that power reveals. That the gaining of power allows a person to more fully express the kind of person they already were on a larger scale."
I remember that was the argument of Lemar, why he would take the serum if he had the opportunity.
Falcon said he wouldn't take the serum, but he didn't make a good argument, so I guess I'm on Lemar's side.
John Walker was already a soldier who had done things he wasn't proud of, even before he took the serum. Taking the serum didn't change that.
And he ended up saving a lot of people, when he was given the choice between taking revenge or being a hero.
Edited by JoLuRo075 on Mar 22nd 2022 at 9:59:00 AM

I'd say Baron Zemo and Killmonger are also examples. Killmonger would've been a normal kid had he not been orphaned in Oakland, and while Zemo was a wealthy colonel, he just wanted his family to live a happy, if luxurious, life. Instead, they became the revenge-filled Manipulative Bastards we know them as today.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Mar 20th 2022 at 9:13:48 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."