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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140701: Mar 20th 2022 at 9:13:33 AM

I'd say Baron Zemo and Killmonger are also examples. Killmonger would've been a normal kid had he not been orphaned in Oakland, and while Zemo was a wealthy colonel, he just wanted his family to live a happy, if luxurious, life. Instead, they became the revenge-filled Manipulative Bastards we know them as today.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Mar 20th 2022 at 9:13:48 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#140702: Mar 20th 2022 at 1:06:48 PM

In general, the MCU tends to forego the philosophy that power corrupts. That the gaining of power makes good people go bad.

Instead, the MCU favors the idea that power reveals. That the gaining of power allows a person to more fully express the kind of person they already were on a larger scale.

Nowhere is "Power Reveals" more clearly illustrated than the Super-Soldier Serum, which has that explicitly as its central metaphysic.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#140703: Mar 20th 2022 at 1:50:32 PM

[up][up]Neither of those fit the trope (which is rife with misuse, but that's another conversation). The trope is "character born to humble beginnings grows to infamy".

Killmonger is an indirect heir one of the most powerful nations on the earth. When given the option, he chose a life of adversity and violence, and if his father hadn't been killed he still would have had that choice-to either join his father's uprising, or if both had been brought back to Wakanda, to fight there. He likely would have been a War Dog, at the very least. For Killmonger, "the only easy day was yesterday", indeed.

And then you have Zemo, a member of European aristocracy who also ran a covert death squad.

Unless they changed the definition of "normal" while I was asleep, neither qualify by a long shot.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140704: Mar 20th 2022 at 1:56:46 PM

[up] ...Okay, in fairness, I had kind of just woken up and wasn't thinking straight when I typed that. But yeah, in retrospect, not one of my better posts.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140705: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:23:01 AM

And now having watched Eternals, I'm all caught up on the MCU. It was good. Not super hype-inducing or anything, but definitely not as boring as some said it was. I can definitely believe Chloe Zhao dabbles in fanfic, though, haha.

Unrelatedly, Karun is the best character in the film.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#140706: Mar 21st 2022 at 2:18:57 AM

Following on from what Tobias Drake said, it's an interesting point and one that No Way Home also seemed to focus on. None of the "bad guys" were THAT bad until they were empowered, which immediately seemed to draw out their very worst side, so all of them remained fairly sympathetic to differing degrees (depending on how much you see "The Goblin" as a completely separate individual from Norman Osborne.)

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140707: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:14:52 AM

[up][up] I feel like I'm of a very small minority who did not like Karun at all in Eternals. I thought Kingo was fine, but Karun I thought was just an irritating Flat Character who had no reason to be in the film for as long as he was, other than to make unnecessary jokes.

I'm usually not adverse to the MCU's humor, especially since I thought Thor: Ragnarok was a damn fun adventure. But I dunno, Karun just didn't stick the landing for me.

I thought the rest of the film was alright, if a bit bizarre.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Mar 21st 2022 at 7:16:47 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#140708: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:17:48 AM

As far as comic relief characters go, Karun isn't the worst, but he's far from the best.

The legend has returned.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140709: Mar 21st 2022 at 2:13:41 PM

I like that he had some actual pathos to him, compared to other, flatter comic relief like Darcy, Korg, or Ned. The reminders that he's an ordinary human who will actually be affected by the Eternals' success or failure adds some poignancy to him that the others kinda lack.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Mar 21st 2022 at 5:20:35 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#140710: Mar 21st 2022 at 2:18:52 PM

I did like that Karun presided over Gilgamesh's cremation. Sad that they didn't go into more depth with that aspect of his character.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#140711: Mar 21st 2022 at 2:34:27 PM

I liked Karun because he was a walking, talking reminder (both to the audience and to the Eternals themselves) that humans do not deserve annihilation. And that ends up being the big conflict at the end of the movie.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140712: Mar 21st 2022 at 2:43:25 PM

[up] I'll give you credit that his farewell to the Eternals was very sweet, and important for the reasons you said. But that was literally the only part of him that I actually liked.

[up][up][up] I've enjoyed Korg quite a bit so far, in part because he doesn't get too much screen time to the point of being tiring. It also helps that he actually has a reason to accompany Thor on his journey back to Asgard, and it also pays off on Thor's end since Korg and the survivors of Sakaar help in the fights against Hela and Thanos.

Darcy admittedly wasn't that great in the Thor films, but she at least proved her merit in WandaVision by helping S.W.O.R.D figure out how to tune into Wanda's broadcast and help with ways to breach the Hex.

Ned is fundamental for establish Peter's setting as an Ordinary High-School Student in a special school, and his difficulty supporting his friend can be justified as being an Ordinary High-School Student who doesn't really know how to help Peter in the world of superheroes. But at least he tries to assist him, whether it be the guy-in-the-chair, or trying to use the sling ring.

Karun gets way too much screentime than necessary, contributes nothing to the story outside of helping introduce Kingo in the modern day, and has literally no reason to be in the story outside of said introduction, minus having an irritating Running Gag (one that Homecoming did better as part of its intro to boot).

I don't think he's the worst character ever made, but I'm nonetheless not a huge fan of the guy.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Mar 21st 2022 at 2:45:17 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#140713: Mar 21st 2022 at 3:34:35 PM

Karun just kind of exists and thus I have no real opinion on him. Again, if they had leaned more into how he's palling around with mythological inspirations and how that affects his religious beliefs, that would have been really neat.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#140714: Mar 21st 2022 at 3:44:12 PM

I liked Karun more than I thought I would. To begin with I thought it was very neat that the token representaive of mankind is an Indian hindu rather than "wise-cracking american guy from Chicago or some shit". He's not the best character ever but I thought he was endearing, and he has a couple of highlights (praying at the funeral and his goodbye to the eternals).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#140715: Mar 21st 2022 at 3:56:06 PM

This is going to sound odd, but I felt like the movie needed more characters like Karun and less Eternals. With only a single human character among the main cast, the “trolley problem” debate to sacrifice Earth is far too abstract. It’s hard to picture billions of people, easier to sympathize with a few we see in front of us. Chloé Zhao’s main talent in her prior films has been mining great performances out of random people who have never been onscreen, and I think the film instead centering on gathering a bunch of famous actors who serve to be little more than 3rd act batteries diminished the opportunity for more humanity in the story.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#140716: Mar 21st 2022 at 4:11:25 PM

I kind of wished Dane would've accompanied the team, since he's basically the main human connection for Sersi, who's the protagonist of the film. He might've served as a nice Audience Surrogate... although I hesitate to think what he would've done to help out, since he's not Black Knight yet.

And yeah, I know. "Can't have a movie without a white guy for the audience to relate too! tongue" I'm not saying he had to have a large role, just be the guy to ask questions about the Eternals that the audience might be having and have a character who really has something to lose if they don't stop Tiamut from destroying the Earth.

Granted, that'd take something away from the Eternals themselves, which is what the movie is about. I dunno, I'm just spitballing here.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Mar 21st 2022 at 7:12:50 AM

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#140717: Mar 21st 2022 at 4:29:55 PM

Dane's presence in the film does feel pretty weird. He seems reasonably important for a little bit, then just goes away but of course we know he's going to be in another movie.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140718: Mar 21st 2022 at 4:32:34 PM

It's also kind of strange that we had Blade of all people showing up to stop him. Like... how did he find Dane, and how does he know about the Ebony Blade?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#140719: Mar 21st 2022 at 4:35:11 PM

Yeah, he just vanishes after the plot leaves London.

Also, speaking of the London part of the film: there were people in that bus that got turned into rose petals, right? Where did they go?

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140720: Mar 21st 2022 at 4:50:46 PM

They're seen climbing out of the rose pile.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#140722: Mar 22nd 2022 at 9:49:39 AM

"Instead, the MCU favors the idea that power reveals. That the gaining of power allows a person to more fully express the kind of person they already were on a larger scale."

I remember that was the argument of Lemar, why he would take the serum if he had the opportunity.

Falcon said he wouldn't take the serum, but he didn't make a good argument, so I guess I'm on Lemar's side.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#140723: Mar 22nd 2022 at 9:54:40 AM

Lemar naively assumed “I’m a good guy and so is my friend so we’ll just turn more good”, completely missing that his friend was trigger-happy and envious.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#140724: Mar 22nd 2022 at 9:57:42 AM

John Walker was already a soldier who had done things he wasn't proud of, even before he took the serum. Taking the serum didn't change that.

And he ended up saving a lot of people, when he was given the choice between taking revenge or being a hero.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Mar 22nd 2022 at 9:59:00 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#140725: Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:04:03 AM

That was such a contrived moment. I definitely did not buy that Walker cared at all to put others before himself. He certainly hadn’t at all before.


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