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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140676: Mar 18th 2022 at 4:43:13 PM

Hey, quick question. Are we certain that the Watcher seen in What If...? is named Uatu? I just noticed that someone purged all instances of the name on the main page, saying it was stated in an interview that he's not Uatu. I've looked online though, and I can't find any existence of that confirmation. Maybe someone else here has seen it?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#140677: Mar 18th 2022 at 4:44:55 PM

I noticed on IMDB that he's credited as just The Watcher.

The legend has returned.
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#140678: Mar 18th 2022 at 5:30:58 PM

I'd hope they'd get the actual writers and showrunners, and not leave it to a new team like one of the ones who handled What If? or Hawkeye. The tones just wouldn't match.

I want tonal consistency too, given that the whole reason the parental controls were brought in is because the Defenders saga has a fair amount of graphic violence, sexual content, and swearing (seriously, the amount of cursing in the Netflix shows is pretty noticeable when compared to all the other MCU works).

Okey Dokey!
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#140679: Mar 18th 2022 at 5:52:12 PM

So a DD revival is reportedly in the works.

Oh yeah, under the most recent issue of Production Weekly, alongside Deadpool 3(!!!), Echo, and Untitled Marvel Space Project, there was something called Daredevil Reboot.

HELL TO THE YEAH, BOI!!! evil grin

I don't know if it'll be TV-MA to maintain the tonal consistency with the previous seasons or they'll curb it to TV-14, but I guess we'll have to see how it works out for Moon Knight since that one's been said to be pretty grisly, yeah?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#140680: Mar 18th 2022 at 10:16:25 PM

God, I can't wait for Untitled Marvel Space Project.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#140681: Mar 18th 2022 at 10:41:50 PM

As I said last time, I think they could reshoot the whole series shot for shot and if they just asked for a tv-14 they probably could get it. It was tonally dark, but the worst word they said was shit and maybe one fuck per season. No nudity and while certainly gorier than an average MCU movie, it wasn't gorier than the goriest stuff on primetime. They wouldn't really have to change much at all for a tv-14 rating. Now Luke cage with the n-word would probably remain tv-ma.

Edited by jjjj2 on Mar 18th 2022 at 1:42:45 PM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140682: Mar 18th 2022 at 11:02:17 PM

Punisher would still be MA for sure, at least the first season. Even putting aside the infamous Agent Orange death, it also has Frank literally ripping a guy's head off, strapping a grenade to it, and throwing it at other guys, among other fun things.


Apropos of nothing, I finally got around to watching Shang-Chi. I liked it a lot. Shang himself was a good character, but his sister, father, and aunt all stole the show, IMO. Very good performances from them, and some really cool fights. Also, it was nice to see Trevor again. Glad to see he's free after over a decade of imprisonment. Also, why is Banner, uh, Banner again?

My biggest criticism is Shang and Katy suddenly being implied to have hooked up at the end for no reason; I liked their Platonic Life-Partners dynamic and that ruined it, as is often the case.

I'll probably get flayed alive for even uttering their two names in the same breath, but I'd really like to see some kind of interaction between Shang-Chi and Iron Fist's respective mythoi going forward in either Shang-Chi's sequel or Iron Fist season 3 (make it happen please Marvel); are Ta Lo and K'un-lun two of the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven? Are the Great Protector and Shou-Lao kin? Can we see Shang and Danny fight? Or Colleen and Xialing? The latter would be especially funny, considering Henwick was considered for the role of Xialing but turned it down partly to avoid giving up on being Colleen.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Mar 18th 2022 at 2:09:40 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140683: Mar 18th 2022 at 11:35:31 PM

On another note I just discovered they recently reprinted Captain America: Truth which is Isaiah Bradley's first appearance which is pretty dope.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#140684: Mar 18th 2022 at 11:45:53 PM

My biggest criticism is Shang and Katy suddenly being implied to have hooked up at the end for no reason

They didn't hook up, nothing at the end implies that they did.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140685: Mar 19th 2022 at 12:29:33 AM

They're huddled really close and gazing meaningfully at each other during the big funeral scene, and then all over each other at the end scene in the restaurant, and holding hands in a way that suggests a Relationship Upgrade since the last time they were there.

I guess it could still be platonic, but I'm pretty sure I recognize intended romance tropes when I see them.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Mar 19th 2022 at 3:30:08 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#140686: Mar 19th 2022 at 7:30:49 AM

Kirsten Dunst expresses wish to star in the MCU

https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-kirsten-dunst-asking-play-mcu-mj-marvel/

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140687: Mar 19th 2022 at 7:47:39 AM

[up] On the one hand, I would like Dunst's MJ to get an Author's Saving Throw, since she repeatedly got the short end of the stick in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy.

On the other hand...what exactly can they do with her? Especially since the whole Inter Continuity Crossover has come and gone?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#140688: Mar 19th 2022 at 8:05:17 AM

Mayday Parker Spider-Girl movie with Maguire and Dunst as Dad!Peter and Mom!MJ.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#140690: Mar 19th 2022 at 1:11:04 PM

Why not both? May and Annie as sisters, Annie being based on her early younger appearance. The movie would be about May, one of the post-credit scenes would be Annie discovering her powers.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#140691: Mar 19th 2022 at 1:28:54 PM

Ah, like happened with lil baby Ben in some of the Spider-Girl comics.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140692: Mar 19th 2022 at 4:34:04 PM

I'd like to see Dunst in the MCU in some capacity, even if it's not as Mary Jane. She's a good actress (when she isn't getting the short end of the stick).

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#140694: Mar 19th 2022 at 7:59:50 PM

You know what it's funny that the MCU doesn't really have more of? Tragic Monster / From Nobody to Nightmare villains - like, a regular person who falls into some horrible circumstance and snaps, be they lab accidents or random encounters with something worse, etc. Even the most tragic MCU villains are people who are very willingly attached to conspiracies, plots and premeditated plans. The only one I can think of is Ghost, and even then only in their backstory. It's not something I want all the time, but it's interesting just because it's a staple to have at least one in most rogues galleries, so you'd think there'd be more.

On the other hand, it makes sense, because most of the MCU films aren't focused ont he heroes facing the world as it affects people. Most of the MCU heroes are larger than life figures: secret agents fighting conspiracies, fighting corporate espionage, fighting alien wizards, etc. The tragic monster concept works best when the venue the hero is in is more social, allows more regular people to be involved in their stories, etc.

Far From Home does it, but only because it inherits the backstories of the villains from other non-MCU films - revisiting the earlier films recently, I used to say that superhero films in general didn't do it much, but I realize that they'r eall over the place in the non-MCU Spidey films, eespecially the Amazing films. Looking back at them, I love how the Amazing films focus on the horrific, maddening side to becoming a supervillain, with all of its . This is especially the case with Electro (whose backstory can almost be described as "the plot of Joker, but happening to a supporting character and involving deadly electric superpowers"), though Far From Home basically rewrites his personality such that it's not much of a thing in the MCU.

Spider-Man lends himself well to that sort of thing because most of his cast and villains are regular joes and janes thrust into extraordinary circumstances - From Nobody to Nightmare and Tragic Monster is all over the place with him. But MCU Spidey slowly moved away from the "regular person superhero" angle after Homecoming.

Unrelated to the tragic monster point, it'll be fun to see Miss Marvel revisit the whole that side of superhero-dom - maybe also in regards to its villains, but knowing Kamala's rogues gallery most of her villains aren't really like what I'm describing. It's admittedly more of a Silver Age idea that stuck around for a long time and thus gets visited in more darker and edgier ways as time goes on.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2022 at 8:08:00 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#140695: Mar 19th 2022 at 8:22:33 PM

[up] I think Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. had a few one-off villains like that back in its earlier days, like with Deathlok and Blizzard. Of course, they pretty much moved away from Monster of the Week type stories like that past the first season (and Deathlok became a hero afterwards).

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#140696: Mar 19th 2022 at 8:46:12 PM

From the current outlook of the MCU (aside from spider-man possibly going that route in future films), I think the one most plausible to have something to that effect would be Moon Knight, but his rogues gallery (as far as it exists) doesn't really have many of those.

There's one guy who technically fits the bill more, a guy called Morpheus with a Nightmare Weaver variety of the Master of Illusion powerset (i.e. he manipulated your dreams with psychic abilities and could even get you to doubt what is a dream and what's not). His origin was the boiler-plate "born a regular guy who developed a rare disease, sought experimental treatment and said treatment made him into a insane superhuman psychopath". His early stories even follow the beat where he's seeking some misguided vengeance on the people responsible for his current state. He's on the upper echelon of MK villains (you could make the case he's MK's real Arch-Enemy in the "numbers of appearances while maintaning a massive threat factor" scale) but bizarrely I always thought stories really low-balled the inherent tragedy in his character pitch past his first appearances. I get the sense if the Disneyplus show ever adapts him they'd play up the tragedy aspects though.

Aside from that, like Daredevil, MK's occasional Tragic Monster varieties tend to be of the more mundane scale of "tragic because they're ultimately someone who needs psychiatric help rather than a jail cell or the grave" (in his case more fitting because that descriptor fits MK as well).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#140697: Mar 19th 2022 at 9:26:03 PM

Most MCU stories are focused very squarely on the hero's story, with the villain arriving already fully formed. They might have an origin story related to us, but it won't take up very much screentime.

I mean, you could argue every villain is implicitly a case of From Nobody to Nightmare. All of them had to be infants at some point. (Well, maybe not Dormammu.)

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#140698: Mar 19th 2022 at 9:34:04 PM

I feel like that's because a lot of the earlier Spider-Man villains did this whole 'tragic villain due to circumstances' thing well, specifically Green Goblin, Doc Ock, and Sandman.

The legend has returned.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#140699: Mar 19th 2022 at 10:12:21 PM

In the MCU, even Thanos is an example of From Nobody to Nightmare.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#140700: Mar 19th 2022 at 10:27:31 PM

I think Whiplash and Kilian count as nobodies to nightmares.


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