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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#140651: Mar 17th 2022 at 8:04:08 PM

[up]No, that Beatles documentary had it first. And there were also the X-Men movies that had it (First Class, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix).

Incidentally, Inhumans was actually on there from Day One. It's just that nobody ever gave a shit.

Edited by lbssb on Mar 17th 2022 at 8:06:53 AM

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140652: Mar 17th 2022 at 8:10:41 PM

Damn. Fuck the Beatles and X-Men, beating Frank Castle to saying "fuck" on a Disney service.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#140653: Mar 17th 2022 at 9:03:35 PM

Although Luke Cage (2016) might feature the first usage of the N-word uncensored on Disney Plus.

... I haven't checked to see if they censored those episodes.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140655: Mar 17th 2022 at 9:19:10 PM

[up][up]No censorship. Just checked, s1ep02 still opens right up with it as the fifth word said in the episode.

I wouldn't imagine otherwise. Censoring Luke Cage's portrayal of the Black American experience as written by Black Americans but not censoring Frank Castle saying "fuck" in Daredevil or gouging Agent Orange's eyes out in his own show would be both really tacky and really hypocritical.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#140656: Mar 18th 2022 at 1:59:16 AM

What's 17 hours to someone who've lived seven thousand years.

Unless time flies faster for them because... reasons, still seventeen hours.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#140657: Mar 18th 2022 at 2:49:30 AM

I think the reasons probably clinch it.

Sersi still considered Ikerus her ex after five hundred years. I think they're sufficiently immortal and old that that they're more aquainted with the passage of time than you or me.

Moreover, Ikerus is just that stubborn. His whole fatal flaw is that he absolutely refuses to abandon a task he's put himself to.

djoki996 Since: Dec, 2018
#140658: Mar 18th 2022 at 5:13:21 AM

When I said "reasons" I meant actual biological reasons their brain would process information so slowly that 17 hours wouldn't feel as 17 hours. Sure, they might, in retrospect, see 50 years as a much shorter time than a human would, but I don't see the reason why they would see 17 hours would pass any faster for them than for a regular human.

Ikarus, as you said, is just that stubborn and it's his personal flaw that makes him unable to change not some flaw inherent to his condition.

And I don't see the argument for Sersi still considering Ikaris her ex. She's going to consider someone she broke up either ten days ago or ten centuries ago her "ex", because that's what the word means.

Edited by djoki996 on Mar 18th 2022 at 5:14:02 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#140659: Mar 18th 2022 at 7:35:18 AM

I think there is a biological argument. I mean of course it's just interpretation the film in a certain way for world building, but I think you can come out of this film concluding that these characters experience things differently than humans would.

Most of the cast have been shown to struggle to rethink their courses of action over inhuman timescales. Kingo seems to be the most human in keeping up with the times but even he has been persuing the same career for four human life spans now without getting tired of it.

Most of the characters haven't managed to get board of their life styles that have stayed the same for five hundred years. And prior to that none of them got board of their life style that peeisited for six and a half thousand years. Druig seemingly rarely left his village in five hundred years save for a meeting with Phastos and something with Makkari.

I think it's probably a personal thing on how alien you want to interpret the Eternals to be, but for me the idea that Ikerus could spend 17 flying in a single direction without getting tired of it is interesting world building rather than a plot hole.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#140660: Mar 18th 2022 at 7:37:50 AM

Most suicides regret it if they get seconds or minutes to think it over.

That Ikerus didn't regret it halfway means that he is overly determined.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#140661: Mar 18th 2022 at 7:40:14 AM

So a DD revival is reportedly in the works. I can hope the parental controls means it can be done with a TV-MA rating, and maintain tonal consistency with the first three seasons. (And hopefully they can use whatever ideas Erik Oleson had planned for season 4, like Foggy marrying Marci, Melvin becoming Gladiator, Lee Owlsley Jr. as the Owl, and Alice Eve returning as Typhoid Mary).

Okey Dokey!
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#140662: Mar 18th 2022 at 7:43:33 AM

"Foggy marrying Marci"

It amuses me how the secondary couples tend to go further than the main couples, who often fall into an endless on-off relationship.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140663: Mar 18th 2022 at 8:10:58 AM

[up][up] If Daredevil remains R-rated, it might make it significantly easier for him to cross over with the likes of Deadpool. Just a thought.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#140664: Mar 18th 2022 at 8:15:15 AM

That's because Will They/Won't They is the only way many writers can think of to give romances dramatic stakes, and they will perpetually pursue ways to keep doing it even past the point that the ship is canonized - If it ever gets there.

Side ships, as a result, get to be far more compelling by virtue of being written the way people actually enjoy: The couple supports each other and works together to solve the problems tossed their way. As a result, they go farther and are often more fun than the allegedly interesting main couple.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#140665: Mar 18th 2022 at 8:18:14 AM

Most writers are a slave shackled to the Rule of Drama, they're terrified that if its not exciting or dramatic enough audiences won't pay attention,they'll lose focus,they'll watch something else

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#140666: Mar 18th 2022 at 8:19:10 AM

That's exactly why I liked the Monica+Chandler couple so much more than the main Rachel+Ross couple.

I think that one of the few main couples that seems good to me is "Jack peralta + Amy Santiago"

[up]Also Shipping Bed Death is a thing

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Mar 18th 2022 at 8:21:21 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#140667: Mar 18th 2022 at 8:21:24 AM

The Gladiator, Owl, Typhoid Mary and Bullseye is quite the squad of super villains. I would have loved to have seen it.

The main thing I wanted to see out of the Netflix-verse was Elektra brought back to life not-evil. But that storyline is such a quagmire I expect Marvel to just have Elektra to come back as if nothing happened somewhen. Which is also fine by me.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#140668: Mar 18th 2022 at 8:24:52 AM

Something that I wonder is what Owl's relationship with his father would be like.

It is possible that he loved him and wants to avenge his death, or that he just didn't care about his death.

And on the father's side, it's possible that he was a loving father or he was an abusive father.

When it comes to villains, either option is possible, or something in between.

Thanos can be considered an example of "In the middle", he was abusive towards Gamora but he also loved her.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Mar 18th 2022 at 8:26:44 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#140669: Mar 18th 2022 at 8:38:12 AM

Shipping Bed Death is what happens when the romance that's been teased for so long isn't actually any good. It's the consequence of realizing that you're not actually invested in the ship; You're just addicted to the teasing.

Ship Tease is the romantic equivalent of Mystery Box storytelling. It's an addiction-based form or writing that relies on getting people hooked on the intrigue. Filling their heads with possibilities of what cool things might be happening, rather than actually writing any cool things to happen. Will They/Won't They gets them invested in the question rather than the answer; When will it happen? How will it happen?

It's a way of pushing off concrete events to the future so that people can bask in how great the unwritten promise might eventually be if it gets fulfilled. Maybe some day the story will get good and things will actually happen. Who knows? Come back next episode and maybe you'll find out. Aw, no, they teased you some more. But another episode's around the corner. Come back and maybe you'll find out.

Keep tuning in, keep watching, and maybe. Just maybe. The plot might actually do something. Perhaps.

Shipping Bed Death happens when you finally, finally get the couple that's been teased and teased and teased. And then it turns out that the couple sucks, the characters aren't actually that interesting, the writing has no idea how to make them interesting, and simple addiction to the intrigue was the only thing making the show worth watching in the first place. Which happens to other Mystery Box stories too.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 18th 2022 at 8:38:50 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#140670: Mar 18th 2022 at 9:02:02 AM

I think a lot of writers know how to write courtship and flirtation, but they don't know how to write a relationship.

Although going back to Daredevil, in this case it makes sense, because having such a dangerous life, it is normal that he cannot develop in his personal relationships.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Matt never got anywhere serious with Karen, even if the series had lasted six seasons.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140671: Mar 18th 2022 at 9:04:05 AM

In this case Matt and Elektra's relationship is pretty toxic.

It's hard to have a healthy relationship especially with Elektra of all people.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#140672: Mar 18th 2022 at 9:06:32 AM

Although I have understood that Karen is the closest thing to a "Main Girl", while Elektra is the rebound girl or Romantic False lead.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#140673: Mar 18th 2022 at 12:15:04 PM

[up][up] I don't think it's that they don't know how to write characters in a relationship, it's that if the characters want to be in a relationship but can't quite manage to do it, that's a source of conflict, and thus drama. That's not to say you can't have drama with two characters in a relationship, but if their relationship is a constant source of conflict for them, it can make the whole thing seem toxic and like they should break it off ASAP.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140674: Mar 18th 2022 at 12:19:14 PM

Thats the sad thing with Matt, Elektra is all things considered his one, the perfect woman for him.

Its just as perfect as they are for each other, its also incredibly toxic.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#140675: Mar 18th 2022 at 2:09:10 PM

So a DD revival is reportedly in the works.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/dont_give_me_hope_3.jpg

But for real I'd like that, provided it's a continuation and not a hard reboot. They own the original shows now, surely it's not as much of a legal snafu to directly continue them now.

The stuff they had planned for future seasons (more Bullseye, bringing in Mary Walker from Iron Fist, Leland's son becoming the Owl, etc.) sounded really good. I'd hope they'd get the actual writers and showrunners, and not leave it to a new team like one of the ones who handled What If? or Hawkeye. The tones just wouldn't match.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Mar 18th 2022 at 5:11:45 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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