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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

XMenMutant22 The Feline Follies of Felix the Cat Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#140401: Mar 1st 2022 at 6:10:45 PM

[up]X2: I was honestly surprised that Disney allowed The Proud Family: Louder and Prouder to be a bit more overtly edgy (bumping from TV-G to TV-PG). In some ways, it kind of reminded me of the pitch material from Hillary Duff on the Lizzie McGuire revival.

Again, I'm still curious what's the new status quo for Disney+ content now. Disney usually does a decent job with advertising "some material may not appropriate for kids" for works like Cruella, so they could probably employ that more for MCU shows.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#140402: Mar 1st 2022 at 7:09:36 PM

IIRC Bob Chapek's gone on the record saying he wants more adult content on Disney+.

I recall it because it's one of the only things he's said I actually agree with. [lol]

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#140403: Mar 1st 2022 at 8:26:32 PM

It's just kind of weird, since Disney Plus has always had the more adult content up here in Canada, since we don't get Hulu. Hell, I've seen advertisements of Pam & Tommy on TV up here that promote how it's on Disney Plus, and that's a show about Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee's sex tape.

But I guess that just means one less streaming service I have to subscribe to.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#140404: Mar 2nd 2022 at 2:38:40 AM

K'un-Lun. Kung Lao is from Mortal Kombat (and given his hat is a fucking buzzsaw, I don't imagine he needs protection).

I'd say he does with how often he get killed these days.tongue

The current Shang-Chi comics have added a decent setting to the character in the form of the weapons society.

So like sword guy, hammer woman, staff girl. Its pretty simple but it works.

I remember when DC did a similar concept with Green Arrow during the New 52. They had an Arrow clan, a sword clan which Katana belonged to and a fist clan.

Edited by windleopard on Mar 2nd 2022 at 11:47:54 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140405: Mar 2nd 2022 at 3:44:00 AM

Right the Outsiders War during Jeff Lemire’s run on Arrow. Had the whole she-bang of stuff, full reorganization of mythology through a secret society of weapon based clas all vying for control, revealing that Oliver’s family has greater ties than they knew (Oliver’s father is head of the Arrow clan and molded him into being his successor Green Arrow by watching him over his stay on the island), and even introduced his younger half-sister Emiko. Even had a little magic in the vein of the mystical weapon totems where the legendary Green Arrow can grant Godlike knowledge or something.

It’s kinda funny how if a character is weapon/martial arts based, a common form of mythology expansion is adding people who use other types of weapons.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 2nd 2022 at 3:44:44 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#140406: Mar 2nd 2022 at 3:51:27 AM

I think that happens a lot in Wuxia stories like Shang Chi. I didn't expect it in Green Arrow since he's a (relatively) grounded vigilante character.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140407: Mar 2nd 2022 at 3:58:36 AM

As I recall the Green Arrow run wasn’t doing so hot (like a lot of New 52 books) so Jeff Lemire was brought in to revamp it and was largely successful as it was one of the more well received stories to come out of the New 52. Of course after he left the Arrow show writers Andrew Kreisberg and Ben Sokolowski immediately succeeded him where they managed to face plant the title upon arrival.

Ironically the whole Outsiders thing has been mentioned since and the only thing that’s stuck around is Emiko.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140408: Mar 2nd 2022 at 10:49:07 PM

Random late night thoughts:

So far, Loki is the only MCU project where I've unilaterally loved the music all the way through, both OST and song wise. Really curious how different Season 2 is going to be.

I'd also love it if they used the song Electricity by Captain Beefheart to lean into the theremin usage.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#140409: Mar 3rd 2022 at 12:22:59 AM

[up][up][up] To be fair, Shang Chi wasn't exactly Wuxia until recently.

For most of his existence, his solo stories were more Bruce Lee style martial arts secret agent stuff.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#140410: Mar 3rd 2022 at 2:10:02 AM

Yep, Iron Fist was more of the wuxia-inspired take rather than Shang Chi. With the whole hidden village and guardian dragon from the movie, MCU Shang certainly seems to be borrowing elements that were previously Danny's shtick.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#140411: Mar 3rd 2022 at 5:28:09 AM

For most of his existence, his solo stories were more Bruce Lee style martial arts secret agent stuff.

Professor Stephen Teo defines it (in "Chinese Martial Arts Cinema: The Wuxia Tradition") that "Wuxia" and "Kung Fu" are separate but related genres, with Wuxia being a genre more associated with northern regions of China (where Beijing is located, mind you), courtly intrigue, mystical shenanigans and a lot of Jian-Dao fancy sword moves. "Kung Fu" on the other hand is a southern genre (where Hong Kong is located, mind you), created in reaction to Wuxia's popularity, based more on more localized and rural stories (e.g. the ever-classic of Hong Kong being basically portrayed as a Undefeatable Little Village), comparatively down-to-earth stories and a lot of bare-fisted brawling.

Wuxia is older than Kung Fu by Teo's reckoning, as the true-bred Kung Fu is from around the 19th century (while Wuxia is either thousands of years old or around 14th century depending how you define it) as a pulp literature from around the Hong Kong region as a sort of cultural result and reaction of British occupation.

Wuxia and Kung Fu blending together in pop culture something fierce was, coincidentally or not, something that kicked into high-gear with the 80's and 90's as the HK-China reunification picked up steam.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#140412: Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:40:23 AM

IIRC Bob Chapek's gone on the record saying he wants more adult content on Disney+.

I recall it because it's one of the only things he's said I actually agree with. [lol]

How is it that the guy's work on the theme parks makes us go "BOOOO" while his want for more adult stuff on Disney+ makes us go "YAAAAAAY"?

(Not being incredulous, asking honestly. Because I recall folks saying Chapek's work on the parks was more than not great.)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 3rd 2022 at 11:41:18 AM

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#140413: Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:46:20 AM

Chapek is cheap.

Having everything in one streaming platform is cheaper than managing 2 different ones.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#140415: Mar 3rd 2022 at 12:30:40 PM

[up][up] That plus Chapek only cares about making more money and adding more adult content into Disney+ is an easy way to make more money. Iger actually had hang-ups about preserving what he considered to be Disney's brand identity, Chapek dgaf. [lol]

Also kinda appropriate in light of Sony consolidating Funimation into Crunchyroll. I figure it's both less costly and more profitable having a single super-strong library vs. two strong libraries that potentially and unintentionally compete with each other.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140416: Mar 3rd 2022 at 12:40:32 PM

I almost feel like Chapek's logic is "Well every good family has responsible adults, so let's make some content they'd like too!"

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#140417: Mar 3rd 2022 at 6:00:47 PM

[up]x4: Ah. That puts a lot of things into perspective.

[up] Assuming that actually is his logic, he might not be wrong? (Though I can't help but picture certain adults hesitating on the thought of watching something R-rated on Disney+.)

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140418: Mar 3rd 2022 at 6:14:00 PM

Random thought, the Guardians really could use a guy who's good with finances or someone who can keep enough order and slap Rocket around when he gets uppity.

Cause their poverty is generally the result of not being good with money and a failure to maintain looking presentable for jobs.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 3rd 2022 at 6:14:15 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#140419: Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:05:30 PM

[up] Well you also can't deny that the R-rated Marvel shows have their fans, and a lot of those people really aren't keen on seeing PG-13 Daredevil or (more) Kingpin. So in the very least giving them what they used to know would be beneficial to lure some adult fans to Disney+.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#140420: Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:07:39 PM

[up][up]But why would someone like that join them in the first place?

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#140421: Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:15:44 PM

Professor Stephen Teo defines it (in "Chinese Martial Arts Cinema: The Wuxia Tradition") that "Wuxia" and "Kung Fu" are separate but related genres, with Wuxia being a genre more associated with northern regions of China (where Beijing is located, mind you), courtly intrigue, mystical shenanigans and a lot of Jian-Dao fancy sword moves. "Kung Fu" on the other hand is a southern genre (where Hong Kong is located, mind you), created in reaction to Wuxia's popularity, based more on more localized and rural stories (e.g. the ever-classic of Hong Kong being basically portrayed as a Undefeatable Little Village), comparatively down-to-earth stories and a lot of bare-fisted brawling

I was referring more to Bruce Lee's films that saw more popularity in America, in particular films like Enter the Dragon, which are the films that caught on because they were - rather blatantly - more in the vein of the covert action films that were still in popularity in America at the time.

Shang Chi was based very strongly on films like Enter the Dragon, and in his earliest stories, and indeed for most of his existence until recently, the character settled into the more "James Bond with martial arts instead of gadgets" character type those films were famous for.

Given that Shang Chi's original stories, even moreso, had their setting and characters lifted almost wholesale from the Fu Manchu mythos, there's a case to be made that Shang finds most of his origins in British spy/crime thriller.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:15:54 AM

Kiobi20 Since: Sep, 2016
#140422: Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:36:38 PM

What character or setting that hasn't being confirmed for the mcu yet would you like to see I would love to see Ka-zar, Shenna and the savage land, I would love to see dinosaurs the next avengers level crossover

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#140423: Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:44:33 PM

I was more just giving a academic tangent. Gotta use these 7 years in film studies for something in my goddamn life.

Since you brought it up, Bruce Lee is also a topic of discussion in Teo and other works discussing the filmic chinese martial arts tradition. At the time he was apparently quite controversial with the old guard of Hong Kong Kung Fu film artists (e.g. Shaw Brothers school guys) who saw him as too american both literally speaking (Lee being born in San Francisco after all) and in terms of film style and plot (as Lee himself wasn't too happy with the american meddling in his Kung Fu vision, like many executives thinking he needed to slow down the action choreography), while the americans saw him as too chinese. You can even tell the change in his filmography itself as Lee only starts to pick up the "bare-fisted-brawler James Bond" bit in Way of the Dragon and only uses full advantage of it in Enter the Dragon (though the unfinished Game of Death was set to follow the same direction but alas). It was in that intercultural no man's land that he thrived and really managed to become an icon, a true "international man of mystery". His reputation in Hong Kong only really picked up legendary status after his death in his prime and the rest, as they say, is history.

In that sense, a good role model for Shang-Chi if you think about it from a asian diaspora perspective. Like Shang-Chi he was a man of two worlds, although in the comics Shang-Chi used to be more accurately in a Britain-China axis rather than a US-China one given Hong Kong's own status until 1997 (which evidently makes the James Bond connection even more transparent in his case given he even worked for the MI 6).

Edited by Gaon on Mar 3rd 2022 at 8:45:57 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#140424: Mar 4th 2022 at 12:39:33 AM

[up][up][up][up] I don't know, they could be similarly down on their luck for whatever reason or see something special in the Guardians crew. The reason doesn't really matter, thats the fun thing about super teams is the varied members who provide unique dynamics to the team.

Like in Secret Six Bane is a criminal mastermind yet he found himself joining a mercenary team of C-list supervillains cause he needs to make some kind of living.

With Adam Warlock joining the crew in Guardians 3, it will be interesting to see how he shakes things up since he's defined as a philosopher warrior.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#140425: Mar 4th 2022 at 12:46:48 AM

Random thought, the Guardians really could use a guy who's good with finances or someone who can keep enough order and slap Rocket around when he gets uppity.

Accountants of the Galaxy tongue


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