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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#139976: Feb 14th 2022 at 12:11:01 PM

It's a classic case of a awkward line that people decided to nail to a cross like it was the worst thing in television history.

The thing is,Monica sort of the audience surrogate of this story.So people are going to assume that that's how the writers expect the viewship to feel.

And people react poorly to being told to sympathize with someone they don't sympathize with.

Edited by DeanCole on Feb 14th 2022 at 12:40:53 PM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#139977: Feb 14th 2022 at 12:39:47 PM

The thing is,Monica sort of the audience surrogate of this story. So people are going to assume that that's how the writers expect the viewship to feel. And people react poorly to being told to sympathize with someone they don't sympathize with.

The main intention of the line is clearly that Monica is showing some empathy for her, because she understands Wanda's grief and how difficult it would be to give up everything she ever wanted after losing everyone she ever loved. One could even be generous and argue she's referring to Wanda's initial sacrifice of Vision during Infinity War.

And when people harp on Monica's line, they actually tend to overlook how Wanda counters that even if the people of Westview did know, they'd still rightfully hate her.

Monica: They'll never know what you sacrificed them.
Wanda: It wouldn't change how they see me [because I'm well aware that what I did was wrong, and while I wasn't trying to hurt them on purpose, they have every reason to hate me].

On a change of subject, there's a production still on Empire Magazine's site of Strange and Wong meeting America Chavez for the first time.

Edited by dmcreif on Feb 14th 2022 at 3:43:56 PM

Okey Dokey!
DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#139978: Feb 14th 2022 at 12:44:32 PM

This discussion isn't going to get better when the movie releases isn't?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#139979: Feb 14th 2022 at 12:45:43 PM

Nope!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#139981: Feb 14th 2022 at 12:58:06 PM

Oh its gonna be fucking horrible.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#139982: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:03:32 PM

Well you have people who have legitimate concerns about the possibility that Wanda will get the Daenerys treatment just from reading the leaks.

Okey Dokey!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#139983: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:07:07 PM

That's seems unlikely.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#139984: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:09:37 PM

Just gotta wait and see.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#139985: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:13:32 PM

She’ll do a war crime, get killed, and then a dragon will melt something pointy?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#139986: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:19:45 PM

We thought it would be bad after No Way Home and things seem to have gone well there.

The legend has returned.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#139987: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:32:06 PM

I can see them going in two directions with Wanda in Mo M.

1) She feels remorse for her actions in Wandavision and helps Strange out in an act of atonement.

2) She doubles down in her attempt to get her family back, which puts the multiverse in jeopardy and puts her at odds with Strange.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#139988: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:34:54 PM

Much as I otherwise loved the movie I'm still not really pleased with No Way Home's character assassination of Doctor Strange, so Multiverse of Madness seemingly following up on that and making the plot all Strange's fault dampens my hype a little.

"You're a hero because you fixed a problem that you yourself caused in the first place" is a throughline I've always disliked in heroic media. That's not heroism, that's at best breaking even, possibly worse if people got hurt or killed in the interim.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Feb 14th 2022 at 4:37:13 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#139989: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:34:58 PM

But when that line is brought up, people act like Wanda didn't commit a steep personal sacrifice in the end and was just toruring people for the lulz.

It's Schrodinger's Pinocchio. People's valuation of Vision and the twins were entirely based on whether or not they were confirmed to be real boys. And as soon as they were confirmed to be creations of the Hex and thus "not real" people instantly stopped seeing them as lives of value. Oh boo hoo, Wanda, quit crying about having to throw out your Barbie dollhouse.

Been calling it since the show ended, people are gonna retrospect the fuck out of that line as soon as the twins are brought back. And they absolutely will be, can't have the Young Avengers without them and Hulkling.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#139990: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:40:26 PM

Lots of speculation what will happen next. Will those shows be 'upgraded' to canon and appear on Disney+ (or Hulu)? Maybe they will also pick and choose stuff they like and make sure that the rest will not be broadcast anymore, which is also part of the speculation for example for Iron Fist and Punisher.

Why would they remove some shows from broadcast? That sounds ridiculous.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#139991: Feb 14th 2022 at 1:52:27 PM

Oh God lol.

Context: Tweet about trailer.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#139992: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:03:29 PM

Much as I otherwise loved the movie I'm still not really pleased with No Way Home's character assassination of Doctor Strange, so Multiverse of Madness seemingly following up on that and making the plot all Strange's fault dampens my hype a little.

I mentioned something about this back in November on the No Way Home thread. Even if Strange was humbled somewhat by the events of Doctor Strange, it stands to reason he hasn't shed his pre-accident ego entirely and the events of Infinity War and Endgame might've actually made him a bit overconfident.

It's Schrodinger's Pinocchio. People's valuation of Vision and the twins were entirely based on whether or not they were confirmed to be real boys. And as soon as they were confirmed to be creations of the Hex and thus "not real" people instantly stopped seeing them as lives of value. Oh boo hoo, Wanda, quit crying about having to throw out your Barbie dollhouse.

I mean, those three were real. But due to Wanda's lack of knowledge (and because it was all subconscious), she unknowingly tied their existence to the Hex. That's pretty much the only reason they couldn't exist outside of it.

Why would they remove some shows from broadcast? That sounds ridiculous.

I don't get it either. Even if some of the shows (like Iron Fist) weren't as well received as others, they still had their own followers.

Okey Dokey!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#139993: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:07:25 PM

I guess you could argue that the execs might decide that the shows with smaller fanbases just aren't worth the effort, bandwidth, and cost (I admittedly don't know how expensive it is to put a show on your streaming service), but even the worst-reviewed of the shows (Iron Fist) still has a sizeable fanbase who would riot if it were the only one excluded from the service, so I don't see them doing that.

They're willing to offer all of the Fox X-Men films, after all, so clearly quality is not a gate. tongue

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Feb 14th 2022 at 5:07:34 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#139994: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:07:35 PM

[up][up][up]

Said tweet does contain someone using the n word,fair warning!

Edited by Ultimatum on Feb 14th 2022 at 10:07:49 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#139995: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:10:13 PM

Holy shit that tweet is savage, God fucking damn.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#139996: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:10:31 PM

I'm still wary about this whole multiverse thing this phase is going for.

seeing alternate versions of characters I already know just isn't as interesting to me as the writers seem to want me to find it.

Edited by GNinja on Feb 14th 2022 at 10:35:17 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#139997: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:19:04 PM

Same, kinda? I thought "What If" was fine in concept (though I haven't gotten around to actually finishing it because something about the writing doesn't grab me), but I think the whole variant stuff has the potential to be an overdone crutch. Like "you don't like how we adapted this character? Don't worry, we did that with variant 12345!"

And wanting more of the Spideymen I can understand, but was anyone really clamoring for Tom Cruise Iron Man??? (The leak I desperately hope is fake.)

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#139998: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:21:49 PM

Oh God lol.

Context: Tweet about trailer.

Well. That's a burn and a half.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#139999: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:25:41 PM

Yeah, I suspect that a lot of the hype-cycle is going to consist of "OMG, are the X-Men films canon to the MCU? Look at these little details in the trailers that might or might not actually mean anything!" and in the film it's strictly an alternate-universe shebang or something while variants of MCU characters get more focus.

With NWH, I understood the hype (heck, I got involved in it somewhat, given I'm very fond of the Raimi trilogy) because the takes on the character of Spider-Man were very different across the different film series. I'm not similarly excited for "different version of strictly-MCU character".

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#140000: Feb 14th 2022 at 2:27:13 PM

Also, I'm hoping that actually is powered-up Maria rather than Iron Cruise in the trailer. Fun idea.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Feb 14th 2022 at 2:27:36 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)

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