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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Even if it was just for a day, she still did it.
Like I didn't refute anything you said at all. But once again, how can you justify brainwashing an entire town and intentionally keeping it up?
Please try to justify that.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Feb 14th 2022 at 10:47:42 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.As seen in the Age of Ultron Prelude Comic, HYDRA was pretending to be SHIELD back in those times. They were promising desperate people in a war torn country the means to stabilize their country, and radicalizing them once they joined (which is very much a real thing that happens in war zones all the time). Due to this propaganda, many in Sokovia viewed the Avengers as symbols of fascism (see the crowd that attacks an Iron Legion drone with a bottle of acid in the opening of Age of Ultron; or the graffiti of Captain America with spraypainted red eyes that Steve, Clint, Wanda and Pietro see in a deleted scene when they land the Quinjet at the start of the final act, which is what inspires Steve to go into battle without his helmet).
Edited by dmcreif on Feb 14th 2022 at 11:14:57 AM
Okey Dokey!Not sure if anyone else brought it up, but here's a hot take: the figue attacking America in the Multiverse of Madness trailer? What if it's actually Superior Iron Man?
Honestly, I've been looking at the pictures of this figure, and it's honestly impossible to tell if it's Lashana Lynch or Tom Cruise. It feels like the "color of the dress" meme from way back when, except it's actually hard this time.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Feb 14th 2022 at 9:25:53 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."I thought Wanda Vision kinda tried to have its cake and eat it when it came to how it wanted the audience to view Wanda. The show doesn't shy away from showing you how much it sucks to be her mind slave, but it also goes out of its way to mitigate some of the more potentially horrifying implications of the Hex. Like, she keeps the kids in their beds so they don't get traumatized, and she keeps married couples together when she gives them new identities in the Hex.
Now, I could see Wanda doing this so she could justify the Hex to herself. She shows relative benevolence in a few areas so she can point to what she's doing and say "Look! I'm not a monster. It could be SO MUCH WORSE!" but that's not really how the show plays it, because it's her subconscious doing it. Which is only a few steps removed from saying it wasn't Wanda's fault at all. Your subconscious can do anything.
Edited by GNinja on Feb 14th 2022 at 6:17:39 PM
Kaze ni Nare!I felt with Wandavision it was basically the show trying to portray the complexities of grief and people wanting something simple, coupled with a somewhat rushed final episode not being able to properly address the finer points of the premise.
It was basically the reverse of the Walker situation in Falcon and the Winter Soldier where his character arc read like a clear-cut road to villainy to everyone except the showrunners, and the final episode just sort of inexplicably leaps to "no he's actually a good guy".
Edited by Gaon on Feb 14th 2022 at 10:27:57 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."@Targetmaster Joe - Regarding the Superior Iron Man theory, I imagine a scene where Wanda saves Strange and kills the evil Superior Iron-Man. Strange asks Wanda how she knew that the alternate universe Tony Stark was evil and she replies that she didn't.
I agree with both parts of that and it's a good comparison.
Edited by Hodor2 on Feb 14th 2022 at 12:30:22 PM
And what gets me is that they could have easily sidesteped the issues with Wanda by just having the people under her control simply not be aware of it.
Its still bad, but at least you avoid the scenario of innocent people being completely aware that they're being manipulated but are powerless to stop it and rightfully hating thr person who did it.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Now, one thing I think has become pretty apparent from watching a lot of shows over the past few years is how people are simply incapable of thinking about things in non-binary ways, so they think "if you're not a villain, you're a hero," and "if you're not a hero, you must be a villain". There is no in-between, and in discourse, context is completely ignored in favor of just focusing on the actions. I see this with Cobra Kai (with the rivalry between Cobra Kai, Miyagi-Do and Eagle Fang), Better Call Saul (the rivalry of Jimmy and Chuck), Captain America: Civil War (Team Iron Man vs. Team Cap), just to name a few examples.
When, in the Multiverse of Madness trailer, Wanda's like, "we both break the rules, but you're the hero and I'm the bad guy and that's not fair", I feel she is 100% correct in calling out how the sorcerers in Kamar-Taj don't seem to mind when Doctor Strange, a well trained and highly educated sorcerer, messes up and breaks various "rules" (and let's not forget that the Ancient One also turned out to be a hypocrite). But when Wanda—a completely untrained and self-taught novice who spent her childhood in a war torn Eastern European country—messes up, she is constantly given a hard time by everyone (some of it is well deserved, but some of it is absolutely overkill).
And as I touched on a page ago, I feel the biggest reason Wanda gets so much flak in online discourse is purely down to the fact that other characters are just given much more favorable narrative framing than she gets. We see how WandaVision focused on the Westview citizens' pain, and similarly, Jessica Jones season 1 pulled no punches in telling us just how horrifying being under Kilgrave's form of mind control for even a few minutes is. Imagine if the Iron Man movies decided to showcase the various orphans/slowly dying civilians that Tony's weapons have caused over the years; imagine if Endgame and Hawkeye showed random low-level street thugs slowly bleeding to death while crying for their families after Clint blitzed his way through them; imagine if Ragnarok showed gladiators terrified for their lives after Valkyrie captured them to die in the Grandmaster's gladiator games, etc. Those characters would also receive more heat, even if nothing about their actions changes at all, just how said actions are framed.
Edited by dmcreif on Feb 14th 2022 at 2:16:01 PM
Okey Dokey!It is true how their actions are framed differently. However, if a story chooses to highlight an element, then the implications should be dealt with, not brushed aside like the others. It’s the plot that chose to highlight how Wanda put people in pain, therefore it should do something with how she helps mend their pain instead of just flying away. Opening a can of worms, as they say.
I wish the show had kept the deleted scenes of Monica going to therapy. As it is, she seemingly recovers from her grief offscreen, which diminishes her ability to speak with Wanda about how to let go past the death of loved ones. Wandavision says a lot about the need to move on, but not a lot about how to do that.
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You keep trying to deflect the problem being presented by bringing up points that are honestly irrelevant.
Other characters getting "favorable views" or fans being "binary" isn't relevant to what's being discussed.
And don't think I didn't notice how you sidestepped my earlier question so I'll ask it again; how do you justify Wanda willingly brainwashing an entire town for a week????
You can hate the fact that's what they chose to focus on, but the end result is still the same. Thr showrunners decided to open this can of worms so now we gotta address it.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Feb 14th 2022 at 2:32:51 PM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.It's a classic case of a awkward line that people decided to nail to a cross like it was the worst thing in television history. Monica's statement is entirely correct: Wanda made a huge personal sacrifice (by letting the only happy family she has had since her childhood basically die) out of her own volition to keep these people from suffering anymore. Not many people would do the same, really.
The problem with it is that it's incomplete and comes across as (in-universe) tone-deaf. Incomplete because she doesn't bring up the unintentional trauma wrought upon the citizens of Westview and tone-deaf because she's saying this minutes after people got fre from brainwashing (and surrounded by them).
But when that line is brought up, people act like Wanda didn't commit a steep personal sacrifice in the end and was just toruring people for the lulz.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."![]()
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I do agree that Monica's reaction to her mother's death is...pretty understated. Like, you're telling me she didn't just completely break down emotionally after being blipped in the hospital?
I like Monica a lot, but I do hope we get to delve more into her psyche in The Marvels compared to WandaVision.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Feb 14th 2022 at 11:37:08 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."I feel like that line is memed on for the exact reasons ![]()
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said. Its incredibly tone deaf and lacking in self awareness.
Wanda did make a personal sacrifice but it also ignores that started it to begin with.
I understand everything can't be black and white but this is a situation you can't just sweep under the rug.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Feb 14th 2022 at 3:02:12 PM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
x3 Yes, it's a tone deaf line and could've been worded better, but the point of the line is that Monica is showing sympathy for Wanda amidst the sea of death glares she's getting from the townspeople. She isn't condoning what Wanda did, considering that she had been on the verge of convincing Wanda to take the Hex down before Agatha swooped in and forcibly dragged Wanda away.
Edited by dmcreif on Feb 14th 2022 at 2:53:33 PM
Okey Dokey!And once again, for the tenth millionth time, I know that.
I am not denying Wanda's grief or sacrifices. But I do think the series' biggest misstep is failing to address just how much she hurt Westview and just focusing on Wanda's grief.
Like I said; just make the citizens unaware they were brainwashed and the series flows a lot better.
Granted Mo M implies this might be been intentional but that depends how much involvement the staff had with each other
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

It didn't take long for her to relent. Because everything from the drone strike to when Wanda took down the Hex took place over a single day.
The Hex was created completely subconsciously due to Wanda's trauma finally boiling over. Throughout the show she is going with the flow, not questioning what's going on and just trying to hold on to it, without really understanding what's even going on (or even trying to find out). She's essentially going through a week long mental breakdown, not thinking logically. She acts reactionary throughout the whole show, never really putting much thought into what she's doing, because she's happy for once. Ultimately, she never intended to hurt anyone in Westview. Yes, what she did was wrong, and she was definitely selfish in the show, but she wasn't aware people were being hurt and tortured by her grief until the very end, after which she is clearly horrified and immediately stops.
Edited by dmcreif on Feb 14th 2022 at 10:02:22 AM
Okey Dokey!