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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#139651: Feb 9th 2022 at 12:32:34 PM

There's also the fact that many actresses in the MCU don't really like being overly sexualized, so I'm not sure if a bunch of lovemaking scenes would help in that regard.

Simple solution: have the guys go at it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#139652: Feb 9th 2022 at 12:35:07 PM

Besides, we have the wonderful world of Rule 34 at our disposal. You don't have to look hard to find your favourite superheroes naked with each other. And it's not lacking in LGBT content either.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#139653: Feb 9th 2022 at 12:40:46 PM

On second thought, TMI.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Feb 9th 2022 at 12:41:07 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#139654: Feb 9th 2022 at 12:53:21 PM

I think part of the reason certain M/M ships like Steve/Bucky took off as hard with audiences as they did, and not only for reasons like the usual Guy on Guy Is Hot, is because you got a sense of unspoken intimacy between them that Disney-approved pairups aren't usually allowed to have, and I do think that the first two phases were, for their various writing issues which have since gotten polished with time and money, at least better at conveying the human element and implying close bonds between people.

For example, the growth of the Heterosexual Life-Partners relationship Sam and Bucky have in Falcon and Winter Soldier is emphatically the focus of the show, but while their interactions were enjoyable enough, and I don't think it's for lack of effort from their actors, there did seem to be a kind of sterility to their interactions. And that, to me, felt like it was by design from Disney. In contrast, while Zemo's creepiness towards Bucky was definitely pretty squicky, it did imply the kind of intimacy that I felt was lacking from Sam and Bucky for all the focus and overt Homoerotic Subtext they had.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 9th 2022 at 4:06:13 AM

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#139655: Feb 9th 2022 at 12:57:14 PM

Didn't Iron Man have a sex scene in it back in 2008? It's less of an MCU thing and more of a culture thing, I think.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#139656: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:04:43 PM

Several, but they were definitely one-night-stand instances we weren't really supposed to rally around. Iron Man 3 did have a shower scene between Tony and Pepper that I thought was believable enough, if not amazing character writing. Scott and Hope had some frenzied makeout sessions in their movies that was completely ridiculous and impossible to take seriously because of the whole lack of intimacy issue. And of course the Netflix shows have some sex scenes between Luke Cage and Jessica Jones and Misty Knight that I found completely laughable. So it's definitely not that superhero media is lacking in onscreen sex.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#139657: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:10:24 PM

Deadpool also has sex scenes, specifically a sex montage, if that's worth counting.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 9th 2022 at 4:10:51 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#139658: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:11:07 PM

Note that the comics HYDRA didn't have this issue because they were full blown Nazis too. Red Skull, Wolfgang Von Strucker, Heinrich Zemo...Nazis all.

I know the convo has moved on, but I'd say they're also Nazis in the MCU for all intents and purposes, even if they don't all believe or admit it. They're a splinter faction, but all the horribleness of the Nazis is still there. It's especially clear in Agents of Shield, where an alternate timeline where they won shows them going all in on the worst parts of Nazi ideology. Including finding a new minority to scapegoat and try to eradicate in the form of Inhumans.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#139659: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:13:26 PM

They're basically all-purpose Fascists who splintered off from Nazis, allá the infamous "The Spider" post-war nazi organization.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#139660: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:36:11 PM

It's kind of interesting/instructive that Shang Chi and Katy got a lot of praise for having good chemistry, even though the characters are (at least for now) supposed to be Platonic Life-Partners. I think that is a good indication of the lack of romantic relationships (and by extension the lack of sex).

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#139661: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:40:44 PM

Like it or not, the MCU (and DCCU for the most part) borrow heavily from the Golden and Silver ages of comics, in which the stories aren't particularly edgy or grim and the characters are mostly sexless or at best implied to have done sexual things far, far off the pages. Kissing is as far as any relationship goes.

It's a pretty standard trope for this sort of media because even with PG-13 ratings, everybody knows kids are watching. Nobody wants to rock the boat by grossing them out with anything heavier than "married couple" or "boyfriend/girlfriend", with on-screen interactions never proceeding past first base.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 9th 2022 at 4:41:58 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#139662: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:41:09 PM

Now I'm curious how exactly you write intimacy.

Kaze ni Nare!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#139663: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:42:28 PM

For the screen or for the comics?

I've seen some of the most sensual writing ever in scenes where characters are fully clothed and never once make physical contact. Intimacy is a lot more than conspicuous T&A and/or boinking. It's about characters sharing an emotional connection.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 9th 2022 at 4:43:55 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#139664: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:45:30 PM

> Now I'm curious how exactly you write intimacy.

Hand holding and looking into each others eyes...

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#139665: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:47:28 PM

[up][up] In any medium, really.

I feel like characters do share emotional connections in the MCU, but there's still this perceived sterility problem.

Edited by GNinja on Feb 9th 2022 at 9:49:00 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#139666: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:50:27 PM

I feel like characters do have emotional connections in the MCU, but there's still a perceived sterility problem.

Very much so. One of the things I really like about Endgame, for example, is the scene with Natasha and Steve where they just talk about their lives and fears. This is really solid character building and is unquestionably intimate, although obviously they aren't about to tear each other's clothes off.

I rarely find myself "missing" overt sexuality in action movies. I'd much rather it fit organically into the story than be shoehorned in to satisfy prurient interests. For example, it really works in Deadpool because Wade and Vanessa bond via sex. It fits the characters and their dynamic.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 9th 2022 at 4:52:03 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#139667: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:51:26 PM

Sex and romance are stupid. Keep them out of the MCU. As much as I loved the Netflix shows, their sex scenes were the worst, most cringe-inducing part.

Platonic interactions and relationships are infinitely deeper and more interesting.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Feb 9th 2022 at 4:52:36 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#139668: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:53:39 PM

Well this is better than anime/manga at least which generally have the problem of being completely lacking in any sort of intimacy at all.

Even in ecchi harems the chemistry between the male leads and his various romantic interests feels like molesting a dead fish.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#139669: Feb 9th 2022 at 1:57:39 PM

[up][up] I wouldn't go that far. I don't mind if characters develop romantic interests in each other as long as it drives interesting stories and character development, but we don't need to see all the juicy parts on screen unless there's a good reason to include them.

Real people aren't sexless and most of them aren't celibate. Having the story completely ignore these elements makes the characters feel less believable.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 9th 2022 at 5:00:14 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#139670: Feb 9th 2022 at 2:03:37 PM

I don't think showing sex in concept is bad (the precious PG-13 rating aside), it's just that Hollywood is usually bad at it.

But as a lifelong romcom/period romance fan, it's totally possible to write a good and intimate romance without any badonking. The MCU just does not do that. Part of this is subjective (some people see chemistry between actors, others don't), but a lot of it is writing/staging. When Steve and Sharon make out in Civil War, it doesn't feel like a culmination of something they've been building towards, and I don't feel like they would be tearing each other's clothes off offscreen. Bucky, Sam, and Natasha have spent the last two movies developing deeper connections with Steve than Sharon has, but that's only part of it; the whole affair just feels kind of shoehorned. That's what (at least) I mean with 'sterile'.

Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 9th 2022 at 4:08:48 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#139671: Feb 9th 2022 at 2:04:40 PM

Right, that's the other thing. Hollywood is almost uniformly terrible at writing sex scenes.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#139672: Feb 9th 2022 at 2:07:17 PM

i can't think of a single sex scene in any feature film or tv show that I've actually enjoyed watching. It's just not something I have any interest in. I don't know what, if anything, that means.

Edited by GNinja on Feb 9th 2022 at 10:08:12 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#139673: Feb 9th 2022 at 2:11:03 PM

I’ve heard the topic come up as part of a larger conversation about how as a whole movies have gotten tamer and less sensual. “Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny”, it’s said.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#139674: Feb 9th 2022 at 2:13:04 PM

Every time I see a sex scene I just wonder how awkward they must've been to film.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#139675: Feb 9th 2022 at 2:14:42 PM

Being professionals they probably view as just part of the job,I think its more awkward to non actors

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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