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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#139326: Jan 29th 2022 at 11:52:28 AM

I don't think I was keen on the original pitch for young avengers, Avengers dissembeled had just happened and these teens seemed to mostly be very obvious replacements of characters. It also didn't hold the strong premis and appeal that Runaways had at a similar time for me.

But the title seemingly found its feet. But the time their second run started the characters had more varied and complex oragins and the characterisation of Kate Bishop, America Chavez, Billy and Teddy secured them as favourite characters for me. It's a very queer title too.

The MCU seems to be amassing a large quantity of teen or young adult heroes.

Hawkeye, America Chavez, Wiccan, Speed, Stature and Patriot are Young Avenger characters slated to appear in the MCU or are already established.

But we also have Champions characters like Ms Marvel, Iron Heart and the Joaquín Torres version of Falcon.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#139327: Jan 29th 2022 at 12:03:32 PM

So, a popular idea is that the next Avengers movie will be Young Avengers vs Dark Avengers, but I'm not entirely sure on that. Hawkeye spoilers: Yelena Belova seems to be set-up for both teams. She's a younger version of Black Widow to parallel Kate, who's a younger version of Hawkeye, but she's also working with the organization that seems to be setting up the Dark Avengers with US Agent as the evil counterpart to Captain America.

Maybe that's a plot point, Yelena is going to be the Black Widow analogue for both teams, and her choosing a side is a big part of the story. That would kinda make sense for the Black Widow analogue, but I still have some doubts.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 29th 2022 at 1:04:07 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#139328: Jan 29th 2022 at 12:06:27 PM

I imagine that the MCU will combine concepts from the Champions and Young Avengers and have just one young team

Like they did with that unused New Warriors pitch that had New Warriors and Great Lakes Avengers

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#139329: Jan 29th 2022 at 12:08:23 PM

We are getting Kamala and Riri who are Champions characters.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#139330: Jan 29th 2022 at 12:25:42 PM

We still aren't even sure who the rest of the Dark Avengers are even going to be. Yelena Belova and John Walker are confirmed in the very least, but the rest aren't clear.

I know Baron Zemo, the Abomination and Ghost are potentially candidates, but they aren't really confirmed at all. Hell, I'm not even sure what kind of role Zemo would fill on the team. He doesn't exactly seem like an ideal teammate.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jan 29th 2022 at 12:25:58 PM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#139331: Jan 29th 2022 at 12:33:01 PM

I feel like Echo would also count, since she's only considered a hero now because she has her own show.

The legend has returned.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#139332: Jan 29th 2022 at 12:33:57 PM

I hope when Ghost appears again she takes more elements of her comic self's personality since it be pretty fun for a girl to be the creepy gross little weirdo.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#139333: Jan 29th 2022 at 12:46:25 PM

I think the problem with including the likes of Zemo and Echo is that it would lead to way too many Badass Normal teammates in a group that's supposed to be a counterpart to an explicitly superhuman Super Team.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#139334: Jan 29th 2022 at 12:57:30 PM

MCU Ghost did have some weirdo moments

They just gotta lean into it

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#139335: Jan 29th 2022 at 1:04:00 PM

I think Ghost and Abomination would be good additions. Abomination has extreme super strength while Ghost has minor super strength, durability, and phasing.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#139336: Jan 29th 2022 at 1:41:22 PM

I really want Justin Hammer to end up as March 1 during Armour Wars, but Sam Rockwell isn't confirmed.

Edited by Whowho on Jan 29th 2022 at 9:41:38 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#139337: Jan 29th 2022 at 1:44:37 PM

Oh yeah, if Abomination is too good to join the Dark Avengers, Red Hulk is also a possibility, if Ross turns into Red Hulk during She-Hulk.

Actually, She-Hulk might set-up She-Hulk herself as a Hulk replacement on the Young Avengers and Red Hulk as the Dark Avengers counterpart.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#139338: Jan 29th 2022 at 1:46:00 PM

She-Hulk is too old to be a Young Avenger, especially since Hulking will likely be around Billy’s age if they they adapt their relationship.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#139339: Jan 29th 2022 at 1:54:09 PM

I mean... isn't Sam Wilson's Captain America going to be in the Young Avengers? Anthony Mackie is 43, while the actress playing She-Hulk, Tatiana Maslany, is 36.

Or is there going to be a regular Avengers team as well as a Young Avengers team? I was thinking the Young Avengers would just be the Next-Gen of Avengers, not necessarily a bunch of children in a separate team (and the actresses for Yelena and Kate, Florence Pugh and Hailee Steinfeld, are 26 and 25, respectively, so them being children is already out of the picture).

I was thinking Young Avengers vs Dark Avengers would be a battle between the two big teams to see who gets to take the place of the OG Avengers.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 29th 2022 at 2:54:30 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#139340: Jan 29th 2022 at 2:01:51 PM

The Young Avengers range from teenagers to old enough to attend college. It’s even a plot point in the Gillen/McKelvie run when the villain is a multiversal parasite who cannot be seen by adults. So I presume Kate Bishop will be the oldest at 22, while any adults past her go on an official Avengers team or the Dark Avengers.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 29th 2022 at 2:03:03 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#139341: Jan 29th 2022 at 2:06:42 PM

I can't help but wonder how the Dark and Young Avengers will end up coming into conflict with one another. Presumably Valentina wants to use them for a specific reason, while in the meantime the Young Avengers aren't even hinted to be a thing in canon yet.

Maybe it has to do with public opinion. Like, maybe the general public would prefer a bunch of government-controlled Dark Avengers even if they do horrible things during covert operations, rather than trusting a bunch of superpowered kids who still don't know what they're doing most of the time. That would be an interesting set-up.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#139342: Jan 29th 2022 at 2:14:37 PM

[up][up]So you think there will be both a regular Avengers team and a Young Avengers team? I really don't think that'll be the case. I think the regular Avengers team and Young Avengers team will be composited, and the line-up will be like:

  • Captain America (Sam)

  • Hawkeye (Kate)

  • Black Widow (Yelena)

  • She-Hulk

  • Shang-Chi

  • Stinger (Cassie)

  • Spider-Man? (don't spoil NWH)

And then maybe include Scarlet Witch's kids in there, too.

There just won't be a regular Avengers team, it'll be called the Young Avengers, and they'll fight the Dark Avengers to see who takes the place of the regular Avengers team.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 29th 2022 at 3:15:45 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#139343: Jan 29th 2022 at 2:24:26 PM

Friction between the regular Avengers team and the Young Avengers is part of their first arc in the comics, so it’s likely there will be two teams. The YA weren’t even an Avengers-sanctioned team when they first appeared; they formed independently and the adult Avengers couldn’t get them to stop.

The Avengers:

  • Captain America: Sam Wilson
  • Hawkeye: Clint Barton
  • Hulk: Banner or She-Hulk
  • Scarlet Witch and/or Doctor Strange
  • Ant-Man: Scott Lang
  • Other possible newcomers like Shang-Chi

Young Avengers:

  • Captain America: America Chavez and/or Patriot
  • Hawkeye: Kate Bishop
  • Hulk: Hulking
  • Wiccan
  • Stature
  • Speed
  • Other newcomers like Kamala Khan

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#139344: Jan 29th 2022 at 3:04:11 PM

Wong seems like he's pretty heavily associated with the Avengers now.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#139345: Jan 29th 2022 at 3:07:05 PM

[up] If Abomination ends up joining the Dark Avengers, Wong's gonna have to explain how he got him back into fighting shape in the last five years...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#139346: Jan 29th 2022 at 3:25:40 PM

Contessa doesn't seem to be literally making a Dark Avengers team. Tbh, so far it looks like she's assembling some kind of covert team, which explains the general focus on less flashy, non-superpowered agents, as well as her specifically seeking out soldiers and spies.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 29th 2022 at 3:25:51 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#139347: Jan 29th 2022 at 3:36:34 PM

[up] So basically Mission Impossible, but with superpowered individuals?

I can dig.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#139348: Jan 29th 2022 at 3:37:33 PM

Ghost would be pretty great for that considering her powerset.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#139349: Jan 29th 2022 at 3:53:44 PM

Huh.

I wonder if they're doing this. Especially, since Secret Invasion is coming up.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#139350: Jan 29th 2022 at 4:06:02 PM

I think it'd be a fun twist if Abomination isn't a villain anymore, and Wong's been helping him rehabilitate.


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