TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138976: Jan 17th 2022 at 1:47:53 PM

Yeah I always thought Jack Locke was Matches Malone, Steve Grant was Bruce Wayne's public persona, and Moon Knight was the Batman.

But I think it maps even easier onto the Spector.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138977: Jan 17th 2022 at 2:00:32 PM

I think Marc is the Moon Knight persona and thus the most violent one of the personas.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138978: Jan 17th 2022 at 2:26:02 PM

[up][up]

Yeah, I do think it's likely that there is a large amount of direct influence from Batman. Since Moon Knight is sort of a Corrupted Character Copy of Batman. I'm not sure how much is directly from The Shadow as opposed to being inspired by Batman, who was in turn inspired by The Shadow, but the Shadow's many personas are reminiscent of Marc's.

[up] That's part of why the Count of Monte Cristo comes to mind for me. Because Dantes has a good persona, Lord Wilmore, who is just a nice philanthropist, who describes himself as an enemy of the Count.

And you definitely have a problem when your main identity is not the good persona.

Edited by Hodor2 on Jan 17th 2022 at 4:29:50 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138979: Jan 17th 2022 at 2:27:06 PM

[up][up][up][up] Yay, I'm not the only one who watched Lupin! Great show.

I think part of the reason the whole "insane guy with DID thing" isn't used so much is because it's something that's really hard to pull off without it coming across as tone-deaf to actual people with DID. Split personalities are, I wouldn't say romanticized by any means, but they're used a lot in fiction, and rarely as a way that actually is accurate to how the disorder functions in Real Life.

I wouldn't say it's a Forgotten Trope or even a Discredited Trope, but I certainly don't think it's a popular one.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Jan 17th 2022 at 2:27:20 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138980: Jan 17th 2022 at 2:35:38 PM

Huh that bit about Shuri's personality change reminds me of something funny about Black Panther, they completely sanded off all of his personal and family drama.

T'Chaka raised him to adulthood and saw him become Black Panther so even with his death his daddy issues aren't as bad, Ramonda as well raised him from birth so he grew up with both father and mother, with since Ramonda no longer being a foreigner she is beloved by Wakanda. He doesn't have a rivalry with his siblings, Hunter doesn't exist and Shuri isn't a warhawk nationalist who regards him as a disappointment (the exact opposite really). All of this resulted in T'Challa being an emotionally healthy individual who doesn't wear a cold king mask and manipulates the people around to protect them.

T'Challa's life here is borderline perfect which is funny to think about. It wasn't until his father's death and learning about T'Chaka killing his uncle resulting in Killmonger that he gained any kind of baggage.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138981: Jan 17th 2022 at 3:16:54 PM

[up][up] I'd say DID is *sensationised* in media. Which is laughable media feels the need to do that considering how high concept a lot of identity systems can be.

Like the recurring theme I see in DID protrayals that out side of the host who does the day to day life, the other alters are almost never protrayed as people you'd actually want to be friends with.

Like the script might humanise the most prominant host alter, but all the other alters get treated as a problem, rather than identities with a more limited perspective that could be communicated with.

But there's just something so dramatic about a different identity living inside a likable character who is just messing everything up without any clear chance of resolving.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138982: Jan 17th 2022 at 3:22:47 PM

@Hodor 2: With Moon Knight his creator (and writer of his character-defining run) Doug Moench has said he was in fact cribbing off directly from The Shadow (the run directly after him has MK declare: "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Khonshu knows!" as a tip of the hat), so it was a deliberate Shout-Out. In the earlier stories they were actually just alternate personates, but towards the middle of the Moensch run he starts to confuse which identity is the real him (or if none are) and that's when the notion of "Moon Knight is insane" started to kick off.

Still, at first it wasn't like separate alters allá D.I.D but more like he just has a extremely loose grasp on reality and of who he was, so as to characterize him as being closer to schizophrenic than with D.I.D. Which is still how he's often played when the D.I.D thing isn't used. Ellis, Lemire and Jed Mackay (current MK writer) all head more into that direction. Lemire does play with multiple personalities but he does so while implicating one of them might be the real one and the others may just be vivid delusions of it, since the story deals with nested reality.

If you play it like that, MK doesn't have D.I.D but paranoid schizophrenia and his alters aren't alters but grandiose delusions of a mind trying to grip to what it sees as reality. Granted, I'm not a psychiatrist so this is me spitballing.

PS: Lupin was indeed a very fun show and I hope it continues.

[up] Ironically Moon Knight kind of escapes that bit. Marc Spector, Steve Grant, Jake Lockley and Moon Knight are all relatively good personalities with their internal flaws (Grant is apathetic, Lockley is coarse, MK is a fanatic). Spector is the worst of them as he was a ruthless mercenary, but he is also the original personality (well, in theory), and he's The Atoner. He has no "evil" personality, even if all the ones present are flawed to their own extents.

Edited by Gaon on Jan 17th 2022 at 3:34:42 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#138983: Jan 17th 2022 at 3:39:41 PM

It doesn't help that DID has for a long time been handled very poorly in media and "he's got multiple personalities 'cuz he's craaaaaaaaazy" is both a fairly old trope and something that I believe has been used with Moon Knight himself.

But yeah, it does sound like the best way to deal with it is to not go into the DID angle at all - I imagine the schizophrenia and psychosis will be more than enough. Not to dig up old convos but if you want superhero DID best way to go is Bruce Banner.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#138984: Jan 17th 2022 at 3:43:01 PM

I think when Shuri first appeared she wasn’t super nationalist

It was Doom nearly assassinating T’Challa, stealing all of the vibranium, and causing a coup and then Namor flooding the country what probably did it

Also T’Challa ditched the country in her lap after it had been economically and militarily devastated by the loss of vibranium so he could go be Daredevil

Her entire association with the Black Panther role was an intense downwards cynicism spiral

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138985: Jan 17th 2022 at 4:47:57 PM

Ya know that does make for a good character arc.

Not sure where though. Don't trust the cartoons to handle serious subject mature, maybe a Black Panther video game.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#138986: Jan 17th 2022 at 5:12:01 PM

I can see a Telltale-style Black Panther game where you do a bunch of kingly decisions that affect different members of the royal family over the course of the game.

The legend has returned.
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#138987: Jan 17th 2022 at 6:19:11 PM

All this Moon Knight talk and the trailer is in a matter of minutes. So exciting! waii

(Also it's been officially confirmed the series premieres March 30th, for the record.)

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138988: Jan 17th 2022 at 6:32:10 PM

I don't have live TV so I probably won't get to see it. Oh well.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138991: Jan 17th 2022 at 6:57:52 PM

"I'm not real."

That really should be the tagline.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#138992: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:00:49 PM

Just saw it.

Man, shit's gonna get trippy.

One Strip! One Strip!
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#138993: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:02:40 PM

Courtesy link. This is the year of the mind fucks, huh?

The legend has returned.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#138994: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:03:40 PM

edit

Edited by comicwriter on Jan 17th 2022 at 7:03:56 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138995: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:03:46 PM

Dammit, I'm gonna have to wait to give my thoughts on this Bad timing in my end.

But from what little I saw of it, looks neat!

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#138996: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:11:46 PM

So he's operating out of Britain here? He's an American superhero in the comics is he not?

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138997: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:13:15 PM

Damn already over 200,000 views

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138998: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:13:27 PM

I'm kind of thinking/hoping that he's supposed to be a Fake Brit in-universe given that someone who calls him in the trailer has an American accent and also in the trailer, Marc doesn't remember being Marc. He's living in a different identity.

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#138999: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:14:04 PM

YEEEESSSS!!!

Interestingly, Ethan Hawke's character — previously speculated to be Sun King — is listed in the subtitles as "Arthur Harrow," a character from a single 1985 issue.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#139000: Jan 17th 2022 at 7:19:05 PM

[up] Composite Character, Henri Ducard/Ra's Al Ghul, Olivia Octavius, Agatha all along are all viable possibilites.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid

Total posts: 186,763
Top