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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#138951: Jan 17th 2022 at 4:31:03 AM

I personally am not a fan of Shuri as a possible Black Panther because in the grand scope of Disney, she would just be yet another rebellious princess type that is both commonplace and annoying.

Is Shuri really rebellious? She strikes me as simply sarcastic and irreverent.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#138952: Jan 17th 2022 at 5:14:09 AM

[up][up] Hasn't Konshu being revealed as Real After All also been met with criticism, as many prefered Mark to just suffer from delusions?

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#138953: Jan 17th 2022 at 5:45:58 AM

If she inherits T'Challa's throne, I can definitely see her shunning her royal duties to exclusively be Black Panther.

The legend has returned.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138954: Jan 17th 2022 at 5:47:41 AM

I feel like you can have your cake and eat it too by having Marc suffer from delusions on top of having a complicated relationship with an Ejyptian god pateron.

Like, I think Khonshu being real is fundinentaly more interesting than him not.

Because their relationship is just fascinating. Khonshu is fickle and demands too much from Marc, can be a real bad I fouence on Marc's mental health, and also Marc even talking to Khonshu is pretty spicy given that Marc is the son of a rabbi. But on the other hand Khonshu saved Marc's life and does (every so often) give Marc super powers.

You can even still have Marc doubt if Khonshu is real and I think that enritches their complicated dynamic if Marc's faith in Khonshu is wavering, but Khonshu works better I think if the audience can infer that this character has agency.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#138955: Jan 17th 2022 at 5:56:16 AM

There was one run (maybe Lemire's but I couldn't swear to that) that did exactly that - among many other possibilities suggested that Spector could be both insane AND an avatar of Khonshu - one of the voices in his head really was an Egyptian deity talking to him, but the rest? All delusions.

Under Warren Ellis it went the other direction IIRC and Spector seemed to have apparently decided it doesn't actually matter whether he's Khonshu's agent or "just" a crazy ex-mercenary as he will end up doing his "mission" either way.

[down] ALSO a possibility.

Edited by jakobitis on Jan 17th 2022 at 6:00:17 AM

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#138956: Jan 17th 2022 at 5:58:24 AM

and here I am thinking Moon Knight is possessed and needs an exorcist

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138957: Jan 17th 2022 at 6:03:48 AM

How many alters does Marc Spector have? I know he has the cab driver, but he's got a few introjects of other superheroes doesn't he?

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#138958: Jan 17th 2022 at 8:04:25 AM

I think the most commonly seen are Steven Grant (the rich millionaire), Jake Lockley (the cab driver) and more recently Mr. Knight (Badass in a Nice Suit).

He's had others at different times and Bendis made him have literal alters of other superheroes (despite that being even LESS like D.I.D than his "normal" portrayal) but I think that's mostly been quietly ignored.

Edited by jakobitis on Jan 17th 2022 at 8:05:20 AM

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#138959: Jan 17th 2022 at 8:05:35 AM

dude has enough imaginary friends Foasters Home says they're full

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138960: Jan 17th 2022 at 8:33:39 AM

It's usually Marc Spector, Steven Grant, Jake Lockley an Moon Knight/Mr. Knight (whether they're explicitly separate per see or if Mr. Knight is just a variation/evolution of the standard MK personality is a bit fuzzy but either way MK usually only has a single "Fist of Khonshu" personality active).

Writers have generally stated that Marc has spsecifically four identities (Spector, Grant, Lockley and the Knight) at a time because the moon has four principal phases (new moon, waxing crescent, full moon, and waning crescent), so it suits the numerological motifs of his deity. Each speciic personality could symbolically match a phase of the moon 1:1 but aside from the Moon Knight obviously standing for the Full Moon (given his MK powers spike in full moons) this hasn't been clarified to my knowledge.

Funnily enough, Moon Knight (a.k.a Steven Grant) was written by Steven Grant during a brief spell in the early 90's (iirc), which made for a very surreal bit of trivia.

And yeah, it is pretty clear by now Khonshu exists outside of Spector, so the gist is he's both crazy and an avatar of Khonhu, he just has no way to tell which is him hallucinating and which is the actual will of Khonshu. Although it bears repeating, Jeff Lemire's run throws the casual implication the entire marvel universe may be a vivid hallucination of "the real" Marc Spector, so Khonshu may not in fact be "real" (nor anyone else aside from Spector) if you follow that rabbit hole.

Edited by Gaon on Jan 17th 2022 at 8:35:56 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138961: Jan 17th 2022 at 8:38:29 AM

[up] The personalities being based on the phases of the moon is actually kind of a clever idea. I also remember seeing the Steven Grant personality in this one issue I found online where Moon Knight and Doctor Strange team up.

Just curious, do any of Spector's alternate personalities have different accents/nationalities? Because in the one teaser I saw, it seemed that Oscar Isaac was trying to sound British...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138962: Jan 17th 2022 at 8:56:12 AM

No personalities tied to the half moon or the waxing or waning gibbious moon?

I knew about Grant and Lockley, but I actually didn't realise Spector and Mr Knight were different personalities.

I imagine there will be moments later into the series where the usually non combat alters have to take a turn dressing up as Moon Knight and doing a bit of fighting.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#138963: Jan 17th 2022 at 9:04:34 AM

Re: the accents I don't think it's been specifically stated but presumably they do sound different to each other. The cabbie persona logically won't sound like the rich millionaire etc but I don't recall it being specifically stated exactly what each alter sounds like.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138964: Jan 17th 2022 at 9:08:13 AM

Lockley (the cab driver) I think has been stated to speak in something akin to a harsher, more working-class accent (allá the typical Brooklyn accent), but otherwise I think it hasn't been clarified.

Edited by Gaon on Jan 17th 2022 at 9:08:19 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#138965: Jan 17th 2022 at 9:38:00 AM

There's a new leak regrading Moon Knight.

Link.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#138966: Jan 17th 2022 at 9:45:15 AM

For the record its in Portuguese and it shows his costume

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 17th 2022 at 5:51:34 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138968: Jan 17th 2022 at 9:51:13 AM

I thought the official trailer was going to drop at some point today?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#138969: Jan 17th 2022 at 9:58:57 AM

That face though.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#138970: Jan 17th 2022 at 10:02:05 AM

[up][up] It will, during a NFL game today.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138971: Jan 17th 2022 at 10:03:06 AM

What time is that?

Edit: 20:15 eastern time.

Edited by Whowho on Jan 17th 2022 at 6:25:01 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138972: Jan 17th 2022 at 12:08:18 PM

Nice all white suit.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138973: Jan 17th 2022 at 12:13:26 PM

If she inherits T'Challa's throne, I can definitely see her shunning her royal duties to exclusively be Black Panther.

Which would be funny since in the comics she criticized T'Challa for doing exactly that.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138974: Jan 17th 2022 at 12:15:46 PM

It’s pretty hilarious.

Before the MCU came along Shuri was a hardline nationalist Warhawk who shunned and exiled her brother for caring too much about the world and not enough about Wakanda.

Now not saying the change is a bad thing, it’s good Shuri has her own character now (T’Challa can be as nationalist as Shuri was) but it’s funny to think about. Like how Shuri went from prolly a woman in her 30s to being in her 20s.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138975: Jan 17th 2022 at 1:42:27 PM

RE Gaon's post, it's kind of interesting to me how Marc's different identities are an example of something that's almost a Forgotten Trope (do we have a trope for it?) but with the spin that he's insane. Which I honestly don't really like as a choice.

What I mean, is that pulp characters (thinking of The Shadow specifically, since his identities are very similar to Marc's) sometimes did have that thing of having a bunch of different personas. I'd guess it goes back to The Count of Monte Cristo or other books from that era.

It's not something that you really see a lot. Like Wolverine has "Patch" and Batman has "Matches Malone", but that's about it. The only other modern example I can think of is in the French show Lupin (2021), but that's because the protagonist is explicitly modeling his behavior on 19th century popular fiction.


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