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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#138801: Jan 12th 2022 at 1:43:15 AM

Y'know, I actually prefer Hulk being able to speak coherently, like in EMH or as the Green Scar.

Hulk Speak has been done so to death.

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138802: Jan 12th 2022 at 1:47:27 AM

Ya know I feel like most Hulk’s since has spoken coherently for the most part.

I don’t think Hulk Speak is as much in use now.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 12th 2022 at 1:51:54 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#138803: Jan 12th 2022 at 1:50:08 AM

On the one hand, the inability to just make a Hulk solo movie has definitely limited what they can do with the Hulk. On the other hand, I definitely feel like they could have done better with what they already did do, especially regarding Infinity War and Endgame.

They definitely seem to be moving more towards Hulk speaking coherently. You can still have his speech be 'simple' and notably different to Banner's without going full Hulk Speak.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#138804: Jan 12th 2022 at 2:14:19 AM

So...when marvel will finally get the right to Hulk? for all the stuff about sonic, it seen they just give up on the poor green bastard.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138805: Jan 12th 2022 at 2:20:22 AM

It doesn't help that it's not clear how big a role Hulk is going to have in the MCU going forward. It looks like Banner and Hulk's arm injury is perminent. And while Banner, Wong and Carol seem to be the avengers currently, Banner seems to be in an advisory role.

Edit: [up] Universal's Hulk film distribution rights seemingly have no sunset clause, or if it does, it's an outrageously long one given the last hulk film was in 2008.

I wouldn't be surprised if their distribution rights are to the "next X-number of Hulk films" rather than a number of years.

From what I understand the Namor film rights are even weirder. With a particular director given first refusal for directing or something.

Edited by Whowho on Jan 12th 2022 at 10:26:27 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138806: Jan 12th 2022 at 2:25:35 AM

At most there is some rumors of a World War Hulk movie but again those are just rumors.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#138807: Jan 13th 2022 at 8:03:06 AM

The rights issues surrounding Hulk (and Namor) have always been weird because no one has any clue what the original deal is/what any new deals were and thus it's hard to tell what claims are actually right. There have been claims by at the very least Joe Quesada going back years, though the most significant development was the usual rumor mill claiming the reversion happened in 2020. It would certainly explain more persistent rumors that have involved the both of them since then.

Edited by Watchtower on Jan 13th 2022 at 11:03:28 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138808: Jan 13th 2022 at 8:30:52 AM

All of the copyright marvel deals are extremely nebulous. Punisher and Daredevil returned to Marvel simultaneously c. 2013, despite the fact they had last had films for wildly disparate amounts of time (Punisher 5 years beore then, Daredevil a full decade earlier), so the basics seem to vary wildly from character to character. A genuine headache also seems to be figuring out which characters belong to which franchise given how interconnected the Marvel Universe is.

For example Viper ended up in The Wolverine, but Madame Hydra (who is Viper most of the time) ended up with Marvel, in a bit of a comical overlap case.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#138809: Jan 13th 2022 at 8:48:56 AM

Yeah, pretty much every company got different deals and if it's anything like the Spider-Man and X-Men deals then every individual noun got claimed separately, and that's not getting into the weeds of characters getting dynamically claimed over time and characters being shared with Marvel themselves. It's what happens when you got a company on the verge of bankruptcy and seemingly convinced that it would never amount to anything more than that.

If the Hulk and Namor rights have reverted then the film rights distribution is now the simplest it's been in decades, with Sony owning the Spider-Man corner and Disney owning everything else, with shared claim on Kingpin between the two.

Edited by Watchtower on Jan 13th 2022 at 11:51:39 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138810: Jan 13th 2022 at 10:19:23 AM

[up] So Wilson Fisk is the man who can wade between Disney and Sony? Guess we better start calling him the Linchpin, lol.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#138811: Jan 13th 2022 at 10:25:30 AM

Namor I was surprised to learn was Marvel's earliest superhero,like the first one they ever made even before they were called 'Marvel comics'

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138812: Jan 13th 2022 at 10:48:10 AM

It depends how you quantify. Namor had a failed appearance in the Motion Pictures Funnily Weekly magazine in 1939 that wasn't distributed outside of movie theaters, which was later repackaged and expanded into Marvel Comics #1 later in 1939, which featured the debuts of:

The last one would be "Marvel's first superhero" on a technicality (first appearence in pulp novel form being in 1937 and his comic serialization bringing him to Marvel). It depends whether you qualify pre-Marvel Mystery appearences in other mediums/limited distribution and whether you're stickling to the "super" part (Angel and Ka-zar were originally the birth of Marvel's peak human bullshit).

Edited by Gaon on Jan 13th 2022 at 10:49:14 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#138813: Jan 13th 2022 at 1:07:58 PM

In comparison DC and WB has the rights to all their characters from the start.

Just Makima.
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#138814: Jan 13th 2022 at 1:16:46 PM

Marvel generally tends to consider the Human Torch as their official "first" hero, for what it's worth.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138815: Jan 13th 2022 at 1:43:15 PM

There was a great miniseries called The Marvels Project that had the aforementioned Angel as the main character and attempted to tell a summarized, revamped story of the "first" Marvel heroes and how they progressed from guys in masks fighting mobsters, to fighting Nazis, to finally fighting outwordly threats.

Angel, Namor, Human Torch and Captain America were the central cast, but The aforementioned Angel was the main character and narrator, treated with a lot of respect and gravitas as the one of "the first generation" of Marvel heroes (in the miniseries he's positioned as the chronological first of that bunch, preceding Torch, Namor and Captain America) and the miniseries ultimately provides a nice, conclusive ending to his story. I thought it was a pretty sweet tip of the hat towards a forgotten hero.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138816: Jan 13th 2022 at 2:01:26 PM

Regarding Hulk Speak: I vote the next movie features Hulk Speak but with the Hulk maintaining super-genius intellect.

"Quantum physics too thinky for puny Thor. It okay. Hulk explain."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 13th 2022 at 2:01:37 AM

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138819: Jan 13th 2022 at 3:26:55 PM

I like how in Immortal Hulk Betty as Red Harpy justifies Hulk Speak on the grounds that less is more.

She only ever says 5 words per sentence and believes that speaking shortly and succinctly says volumes more than saying a lot of words.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#138820: Jan 13th 2022 at 3:31:39 PM

The original Human Torch is generally treated as "the first Marvel hero" because he's the one smack on the cover of Marvel Comics #1.

Of course comics back in the day were predominantly anthologies so Human Torch being the "first" was more of a lucky roll of the dice than anything else.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#138821: Jan 13th 2022 at 4:22:56 PM

That is a pretty odd first superhero, but then again, Marvel isn't DC.

The legend has returned.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138822: Jan 13th 2022 at 6:58:32 PM

It was after all why they were called the house of ideas, odd ideas everywehre. While they only really kicked that into high gear in the legendary Lee-Dikto-Kirby era, they were always known for some odd cats of characters outside the mold.

From that original quartet I actually think the ones most outside of the marvel "mold" (as it'd become known afterwards) would be Angel and Ka-Zar. The former is a Two-Fisted Tales gun-wielding archetype that fell by the wayside once the golden age ended (and Marvel never really used) and the latter is a a jungle prince in the tarzan mold who fell off even quicker. Torch is a tortured android who is good despite fearsome appearance and powers trying to find his place in the world while people try to manipulate him to their advantage, Namor is a arrogant, hubristic jackass who rules his kingdom and must learn to have a basic moral compass. Both deal with Marvel's future bread-and-butter themes (tortured and flawed heroes).

A part of me is also moderately surprised that, to my knowledge, that specific quartet has never been a separate superhero team despite being "the original four".

It's a shame the MCU never really found a way to use this whole Golden Age-era gang all that much. I really wish we could have seen a The Invaders team of WWII guys fighting Nazis.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#138823: Jan 13th 2022 at 7:18:25 PM

I think Golden Age Ka-Zar is actually not considered 616 canon, at the very least he has no in-universe connection to Kevin Plunder that I know of.

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#138824: Jan 13th 2022 at 7:35:12 PM

Namor and the Human Torch were also as far as I know the first Superheroes to crossover. This whole Shared Universe concept started with them.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138825: Jan 13th 2022 at 7:35:13 PM

To my understanding there's some kind of arcane rights issue, but I usually shrug and roll with the idea they're both the same guy in Broad Strokes. Of course it is entirely possible I simply do not give enough of a shit about Ka-Zar to differentiate.

Edited by Gaon on Jan 13th 2022 at 7:35:52 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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