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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Tom Holland's response to Martin Scorsese's comments on superhero movies not being "real cinema".
Edited by Brandon on Dec 25th 2021 at 11:02:19 AM
Like creepy stories? Check out my book!...Sorry, Holland, but that sort of argument doesn't pass with me. 2/10, maybe a 3/10 but just because you're an adorable babby.
Not a single one of us on this website have made professional media. Does that mean we have no right to criticize it or make our judgements of it?
Edited by fredhot16 on Dec 25th 2021 at 11:11:20 AM
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.Scorsese gets more attention for his statetement because he's still a living legend still making acclaimed movies. Coppola (and most of new hollywood) hasn't been relevant in decades.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Scorsese is a proponent of what's called Auteur Theory. The idea behind Auteur Theory is that the director is the single creator of the film. The director is the only person who makes a movie, and the movie is the product of the director's immaculate vision. Actors, writers, editors, sound design, these are all just tools that the director uses to weave his masterful vision into reality.
According to auteur theorists, directors are artists and the film is the director's canvas. No one else makes the film. No one else matters. True cinema is one director's artistic vision realized through the medium of film.
When Scorsese says that Marvel movies "aren't cinema", he's talking about the fact that they aren't the product of a single director's vision. There is no auteur; no single brillant visionary mind that makes the entire film happen, who is 100% responsible for every single moment you see on the screen, and without whom the movie never could have been possible.
He dances a bit around the subject, but that's what he's saying. He name-drops other famous auteur directors and basically says, "When a movie by THESE GUYS gets made, it's a true cinematic experience. But Marvel movies are market-researched and audience-tested. They're made to be enjoyed by an audience."
Auteur theory, it's worth noting, has been criticized as being egotistical schlock utterly disrespectful of the countless talented people whose efforts go into a movie. There's been some backlash against the idea that the director, and only the director, creates a film.
Meanwhile, what Tom Holland said is that he's worked on Marvel films and he's worked on Oscar-worthy films, and the process of making them is exactly the same. The only difference between making Hero Man 4 and making Tears of a Soul or whatever is that the blockbuster has a bigger budget. But the production process? Totally identical.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 25th 2021 at 11:25:40 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.It should be noted that Michael Bay is an auteur himself.
Everything he makes a movie it's noted as a distinctly "Bay" film the same way one would describe a film by Scorsese.
The only difference of course is Bay's movies are considered maligned shlock while Scorsese's is regarded as top tier Godlike shit.
So yeah Auteur Theory is pretty bullshit.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I still feel that the fixation on Scorcese’s “how dare he say superhero movies aren’t cinema” distracts from his more important claim that he would be fine with them if there was more variety to film releases than just 90 percent superheroes.
A false claim. Just because superhero films make lots of money doesn't mean that's ALL there is. There are less than 10 superhero films released every year, compared to hundreds of non-superhero movies.
I assume reporters keep springing the question on people associated with superhero movies because it’s a guaranteed click generator
Forever liveblogging the AvengersOh, the debate's evolved from Scorsese v. Marvel. Disney letting Guillermo del Toro's followup to his Best Picture winner premiere with a whimper alongside No Way Home is one thing, but it's notable that super blockbuster-friendly directors like Steven Spielberg and Ridley Scott aren't generating profits in 2021 while Marvel is. Sure, there are a lot of factors (nobody wants to see a 2-hour film about medieval rape, movie musicals are not in vogue, blah blah) but still...raises eyebrows.
Maybe auteur theory was always bullshit, and having a famous director on your film isn't a surefire recipe for success after all.
People have limited money, especially in this economy, and especially in this economy and pandemic state. They're going to spend it to see what they want to go see. And a lot of people have voted in as being more excited for the next big superhero blowout than whatever Ridley Scott's doing now.
It's almost like characters and stories matter more than directors.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 25th 2021 at 11:59:43 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Yeah, it's definitely Journalists trying to bring the question up for easy publicity.
The other option is that Tom Holland took a very long time to think of a comeback to this like George in that one episode of seinfeld, which is funny but not realistic.
This is a thing stoked on by outsiders, really.
My opinion is that Scorcese is Right for the Wrong Reasons, and it's possible to criticize Marvel movies for dominating the filmscape despite their sameyness without also accusing them of being the death of all true art or placing an artificial ceiling on what makes for true art or not.
I do agree that Scorsese actually makes great points with his criticism of Marvel, and he has more than enough experience to justify his claims. He's also not just complaining about them for the sake of complaining like Ridley Scott or Francis Coppola, so I honestly respect his opinion.
And while I do kinda agree with Tobias that the whole Auteur Theory thing doesn't really work in today's world (heck, it was already flawed in previous decades when you had guys like Alfred Hitchcock and Stanley Kubrick being abusive assholes to the women they casted in their movies), I can understand why he believes in it. Because Scorsese is a legitimately good person and great director who tells fantastic stories, and he grew up understanding what it was like to be a director during his younger years.
I do think that the discourse about this debate lasting this long is a bit dumb however, and that we should really move on.
Also, Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."So, changing the topic to something more festive: can we all agree that Hawkeye (2021) was ultimately a better Christmas installment in the MCU than Iron Man 3?
Iron Man 3 took place at Christmas time?
I remember he crashed in some snow but I thought he just landed somewhere that's colder
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Makes me wonder how a potential reunion between the two of them would work out post Hawkeye and WandaVision.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."