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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Yeah, I've generally taken the approach that there are different multiverses, perhaps within some big omniverse. So the comics multiverse is one thing, the MCU one is another, the Spider-Verse yet another. It's not that much more convoluted than what we have already, and I think it works better overall.
> So the Shuma Gorath of the MCU multiverse may be a different character from the Shuma Gorath of the comics multiverse.
For some reason I could see Shuma's characterization in the MCU being similar to Bill Cipher's since they're both a similar sort of entity that is a multi dimensional threat
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverThere is very little practical way to have Marvel’s comics and their media adaptations crossover, so I just file their multiverses as separate. Things like America Chavez being unique to the Multiverse are true to their own medium but not to others because it’s be too much hassle to have MCU Chavez/Marvel Rising Chavez/616 Chavez be literally the same character and have to keep her storyline across all of them consistent.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Dec 23rd 2021 at 3:25:24 AM
Some characters are easier. Shuma-Gorath for example is a very nebulous character who doesn't have much of a knowable character (let alone character arc) regardless of media (indeed being unknowably eldritch is most of his appeal) so he'd be pretty simple to state that he's literally the same guy everywhere. He's just a ancient, ponderous eldritch evil with a verbose and grandiose speech pattern wheneever he does speak and whatever consistencies do arrive can be explained with "That was but a fragment of Shuma-Gorath".
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Yeah, Shuma is basically a Plot Device Villain. He can appear in any kind of story, fight any hero of every caliber and both lose and win whenever it fits the story without looking inconsistent.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianShuma Gorath being the only one in the multiverse is not the same thing as, say, the way DC's Mxyzptlk being the only one in the multiverse.
There are tons of different incarnations of Mxyzptlk. DC recently established that every single iteration was the same being, popping into different continuities and playing himself with a slightly different personality, for funsies. But Mxyzptlk also has a specific dimension he comes from that's independent of all that.
There's just one Shuma. There's not such thing as "different continuities" for Shuma. It's just Shuma. Period. Shuma has a specific dimension he's from, and that dimension is Shuma. Shuma and the Chaos Dimension are inseparable.
Complicating this is that, when it comes to guys like Shuma, Dormammu, etc, Marvel doesn't really mean "Multiverse" in the same way, say, DC does. In Marvel, it's typically just another word for the dimensional matrix, and multiverse narratives in the sense of "different continuity versions of X characters meet" - like with Miles Morales or America Chavez - are rare. Shuma being a multiversal entity is simply Marvel translating his role as top dog in the dimensional matrix to how it logically apply to a multiversal concept, since they appear to have just shrugged their shoulders and mashed the two things togethers.
Basically, its a Sure, Why Not?. Marvel isn't really concerned with answering the question of "wait, is MVC Shuma the same guy?" To them, he's a multiversal entity, so the fans can knock themselves out theorizing while they go back to the eldritch horror stories.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 23rd 2021 at 3:45:09 AM
The idea of the comic and adaptation multiverses being different things is an interesting idea... except Spider-Verse kind of goes against that, as it establishes that Spider-Man (1967), Marvel vs. Capcom, and the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon are part of the comics multiverse... not only that but, while not appearing directly on-panel, Tobey and Andrew are established as being part of those events as well, which creates a direct link to the MCU multiverse, which we know for a fact includes them.
Of course, No Way Home has them act as if this had never happened to them before, so maybe it was a different version of them?
Granted, that might be for simplicity's sake. If the other Spiders had come into the movie saying "Oh, yeah, this kinda thing has happened to us before and we already met because of it", non-comics readers would just be like "wait, when the hell did that happen to them? Is there a Spider-Man 4 that we missed or something?"
Edited by lbssb on Dec 23rd 2021 at 4:19:36 AM
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonHonestly, this whole conversation reminds me when Transformers tried to claim that there was only one version of characters like Unicron and the Thirteen Primes across the entire multiverse, even though that made little sense when you stopped and thought about it. Like, Unicron would be a dark god of primordial chaos in most continuities and then you had the original cartoon where he was just a robot made by some monkey-dude.
Needless to say, they walked back on that
.
Speaking of the spider-verse, after death of Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends caused the wrath of many fans, they applied retcon in which they said that it was not the original universe, but a similar one, so it could be argued that the animated universes and the comic universe are in different multiverses, while the ones we saw in the crossover were just similar universes.
Edited by JoLuRo075 on Dec 23rd 2021 at 4:37:26 AM
I mean, Dan Slott often times just didn't really know what he was doing. I mean, he claimed that the Spider-Man from Spider-Man Unlimited is the same one from the classic 90s Series, even though they are clearly different.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianSo this should clear some things up regarding the canonicity of the Netflix shows (spoilers for Hawkeye and No Way Home):
Vincent D'Onofrio confirms that the Kingpin in Hawkeye is the same one he played on Daredevil
. By extension, we can confirm that Charlie Cox in No Way Home is the same version of Matt Murdock.
So at the very least, Daredevil happened. We'll have to see how or if the others end up coming back.
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonI mentioned Spider-Verse (I also mentioned America). I didn't say there wasn't a concept of a multiverse in the comics.
What I said was that the multiverse and the dimensional matrix aren't really the same thing in the comics, that most of the characters in the dimensional matrix group were not conceived and generally aren't used in narratives that include the multiverse, and that the two have been merged somewhat in recent years but nevertheless they still don't particularly use Shuma and other characters like Shuma in multiverse stories.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 23rd 2021 at 7:30:47 AM
Regarding multiverses and Spider-Verse: Here's something to really make your head spin. (No Way Home spoilers, but nothing that isn't already in the trailer)
No Way Home establishes that the MCU and Sony 'verses share a multiverse. But Spider-Verse establishes that the 616 shares a multiverse with the Sony 'verses; Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield's Spider-Men don't appear on-panel, but are stated to be present by two bewildered Spider-Men confused by why two Peter Parkers look like those celebrities. That means the 616 and MCU are in the same multiverse.
However, the MCU didn't have a multiverse until Loki. The Time Variance Authority were pruning other universes. The Sony and 616 universes couldn't have existed until after Loki and Sylvie stopped the ongoing deletion of the multiverse. The MCU came first. Unless, of course, the 616 got pruned.
That's a bit of a sticking point, isn't it? I mean, is it so terrible that the MCU came first? Well. See. There's this little thing in the comics called Secret War. Every existing universe in the Multiverse got smashed into each other, wiping them all out and killing everyone in every universe, everywhere. After that happened, Reed Richards took over and created new universes to rebuild the Multiverse.
So if the MCU came before the 616, then it already existed during the Incursions. Which we know it did, because the Incursions wipe out the Sony 'verses too, but the Sony 'verses still exist during No Way Home. So at some point in the history of the MCU, the Incursions leading up to Secret War will wipe out the entire universe.
But here's the biggest twist: The MCU is numbered as Earth-616, just like the 616 is. So the MCU and 616 share a multiverse, and yet are both the same universe within that multiverse.
Isn't trying too hard to make sense of multiversal bread crumbs fun?
Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 23rd 2021 at 7:45:00 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I just take it as it comes.
Because when the subject of multiversal mechanics is broached, my sparing human intellect instantly assumes the most ingratiating posture of surrender imaginable.
Edited by Bocaj on Dec 23rd 2021 at 10:47:59 AM
Forever liveblogging the AvengersWhen was the MCU called 616? Wasn't that just some bullshit Mysterio came up with, or did I miss something?
I'm honestly fine with the sheer chaoticness of the multiverse. That thing gets blown up and reconstructed every other week at this point, and that's without considering the Fridge Logic implications of it being, you know, infinite (i.e. since Thanos usurped the One-Above-All/God in one timeline, there has to be a bunch more where he wasn't stopped by his past self and remains supreme ruler of every universe). It makes no sense If you actually think about it and never will. Might as well sneak in a few Kang Wars every now and then.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Dec 23rd 2021 at 7:59:43 AM

It has always seemed to me that for plot purposes, adaptations are treated as a distinct multiverse.
So the Shuma Gorath of the MCU multiverse may be a different character from the Shuma Gorath of the comics multiverse.
While the Mojo of the multiverse of the X-men cartoons is also different from that of the comics.
Edited by JoLuRo075 on Dec 23rd 2021 at 3:03:54 AM