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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#138151: Dec 20th 2021 at 8:48:10 AM

Had they known, they probably would have used the time travel plot to avoid having any significant cast members be snapped in the first place.

I feel like the disconnect would've eventually gotten in the way of the Netflix shows, given that their very grounded nature meant they were pretty disconnected from the rest of the MCU. With how they largely confined themselves to New York City, I feel like they'd be in a very tough spot regarding how to work around things like inconveniently dusted characters.

Okey Dokey!
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#138152: Dec 20th 2021 at 9:44:15 AM

What screwed Ao S's pooch was the 5 Year time jump, for the most part the whole "That happened last year and now we are mostly back to normal" would have worked. It was a good path to go by since the writers were aware of the events of Infinity War (the last eps of Season 5 they do make some references the fighting elsewhere) and once they confirmed that they went by Comic Book Logic that most of the status quo would be restored in Endgame.

For the most part...they were right.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#138153: Dec 20th 2021 at 10:00:42 AM

But this is what I'm talking about.

They knew things would be solved, but they were apparently told absolutely nothing about the full details.

So they had no way to take the five year time skip into account at all.

And like, this is the show that, way back in it's first season had an episode that near directly lead into the Winter Soldier (it aired in the same week, mere days before the movie came out) and then an episode right after that that showed the entire debacle and its aftermath from the point of view of the Shield agents.

That obviously took some coordination on the part of the tv and movie people that the last two seasons of AOS did not have.

They were literally told absolutely nothing at all, and like, what even is that?

It's not like anything that happens in the series effects the movies (due to them being in production months and even years in advance of the show). A quick heads up wouldn't have hurt.

But nobody on the movie side said anything.

As far as I know. I do know the TV people said they wouldn't be acknowledging the snap, and I think it was said that it was due to not be told anything about it, but it's soon to be four years since that happened, so I could be missing some details.

One Strip! One Strip!
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#138154: Dec 20th 2021 at 10:09:34 AM

The problems were Feige (Movie) and Perlmutter (everything else in Marvel), The last big tie in between AOS and was the AOU tie in and that was RIGHT before the split where they Movies left Perlmutter's control. And he HATED that, its been rumored that despite the movie and tv people WANTING to do more references and connectivity between them Perlmutter actively insured there would be no crossovers.

His relations with Fox over X-Men and FF is legendary, as in icy didn't begin to cover it.

Now that Perlmutter has been removed from most of his old creative oversight posts, all the rights reverting back to Marvel, and Feige in firm control things are getting better

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138155: Dec 20th 2021 at 10:12:54 AM

Yeah, Feige has made it clear that he respects the popularity of the Marvel Entertainment TV shows, and would love to expand upon them more like they're doing now with Daredevil. That being said, because Ike Perlmutter is literally the worst, I'm not surprised it took this long for it to happen.

I'm not counting on everything ABC and Netflix-related will be re-integrated immediately, but I'm willing to bet that those are ideas on the table.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#138156: Dec 20th 2021 at 11:12:37 AM

Given how popular the various characters in AOS are (Coulson, Daisy/Quake, Melinda May, Fitz-Simmons ect) I have no doubt that if its possible and logical to fit them back into the MCU proper they will. Everything from cameos to a new D+ series is on the table.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#138157: Dec 20th 2021 at 11:35:54 AM

The canonicity of AOS compared to the Netflix shows seems a bit more suspect since according to the writers of WandaVision they were apparently told to completely disregard the Darkhold's appearance in SHIELD. The canonicity of Runaways is also suspect considering Doctor Strange had its own completely separate version of Tina Minoru. And Inhumans will definitely be ignored entirely, for obvious reasons.

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FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#138158: Dec 20th 2021 at 11:41:01 AM

I'd imagine AoS would be Broad Strokes canon. Kind of has to be after the Continuity Snarl with the snap. So if they bring back any characters, the show would be canon, aside from some retcons.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#138159: Dec 20th 2021 at 11:52:59 AM

[up][up]

Told? They were told that? I know they did, but I didn't know they were told to do so.

Do we have 100% confirmation on that?

One Strip! One Strip!
EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#138160: Dec 20th 2021 at 11:59:47 AM

The only info I've heard about it was from this Screen Rant interview.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#138161: Dec 20th 2021 at 12:30:18 PM

I've only heard that they could do their own thing, it wasn't an edict.

And it could be handwaved as "Magic Book made by a demon...it can look however it wants to"

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#138162: Dec 20th 2021 at 1:18:17 PM

Okay, I guess that tracks. I do remember hearing they were told to, but I guess I could be mistaken.

Still, the fact that Marvel, who're usually so strict about continuity, would give a pass to them ignoring a supposedly canon entry in the franchise still probably says something about how they regard AOS.

Edited by lbssb on Dec 20th 2021 at 1:20:27 AM

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138163: Dec 20th 2021 at 1:27:33 PM

I agree with you but I couldn't help but chuckle at this:

who're usually so strict about continuity

Like. Remember that time Iron Man blew up all of his suits and then kept showing up with Iron Man suits in all future appearances anyway?

Or that time Tony and Pepper broke up and it was really sad, and then got engaged to marry in their immediate next chronological appearance?

Or that time Bruce Banner couldn't Hulk out anymore because of... something... but then resolved it offscreen between two movies, one of which is a direct sequel to the other made by the same creative team?

Or when Civil War made a plot point out of the Avengers recklessly ignoring civilian casualties in Sokovia, even though Age of Ultron explicitly depicted the Avengers as prioritizing minimizing harm to civilianry, and actually Tony Stark creating Sokovia's destroyer would have been a more salient point to criticize?

...man, Tony's at the center of a lot of these, isn't he?

EDIT: Oh yeah, remember when Bruce Banner became the Hulk permanently, with the explicit indication that he will never, ever turn into Bruce Banner again? Which was immediately followed by the "Bruce can't Hulk out anymore" plot?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 20th 2021 at 1:28:54 AM

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lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#138164: Dec 20th 2021 at 1:47:31 PM

Touché. Amend that to "usually pretty good about continuity" then.

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#138165: Dec 20th 2021 at 2:09:39 PM

None of those are strictly continuity holes, just continuity shoddy roadwork.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#138166: Dec 20th 2021 at 2:13:01 PM

Yeah Tobias has brought it up plenty of times and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it before myself but the MCU is great at the illusion of continuity. They have long-term goals but their real strengths are in how greatly they quickly improvise for more immediate projects, how willing they are to change those long-term plans, and how great they are at connecting esoteric plot points to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

The MCU's relationship with canonicity is similarly flexible, which I know irks a lot of nerds like us that want clean straight de facto answers. The truth of the matter is that AOS's canonicity to the MCU changed: it was at first clearly meant to be in the same boat as the MCU, but after Feige broke free from Perlmutter Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment diverged until that connection no longer became feasible, and now it no longer matters since Feige's swallowed up Marvel Entertainment as well. So the answer went from a very firm but implicit "yes" to a very big "maybe?" slightly leaning at "no", and the MCU can totally keep or change that however it wants.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#138167: Dec 20th 2021 at 2:13:26 PM

The writers have done a… decentish job of making character beats out of Tony’s zig zagging status quo.

Him just showing up in suits after he blows up his suits is rewritten to him not actually being able to step back and it undermines his relationship with Pepper which drastically affects his emotional state in Civil War and is partly to blame for his questionable decisions there but Cap taking half of the Avengers and fucking off finally does allow Tony to step back in the worst way because the Official Avengers team basically dies as nobody on the pro-Accords side was really that pro-Accords

A lemon drink was made out of this. I don’t know if it was lemonade but it is a beverage

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138168: Dec 20th 2021 at 7:44:11 PM

So when are we going to get the sequel of the Avengers eating shawarma? And who will be the featured heroes?

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#138169: Dec 21st 2021 at 6:02:04 AM

I feel like that already happened in Endgame, with Scott, Nat, Steve, and Bruce eating Mexican food.

The legend has returned.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138170: Dec 21st 2021 at 6:23:15 AM

I feel like it has to be Kamala taking Carol and Monica to her favorite Halal restaurant right?

Edited by Hodor2 on Dec 21st 2021 at 6:23:42 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138171: Dec 21st 2021 at 7:37:03 AM

At somepoint I need to watch the Runaways TV show, given that they're my favourite marvel property. But they and Cloak & Dagger are probably the least likeky properties to be cannonised to the MCU. And I can't help but feel like the premis requires the marvel setting to be way more established than it was.

I feel like Runaways coming after the fantastic four and X-Men are reintroduced would make more sense, but a reboot seems pretty unlikely given that Marvel has other properties they'd be interested in developing.

Also I don't feel like Marvel would be interested in doing the episodic soap opera adaptation of Runaways I want.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138172: Dec 21st 2021 at 7:40:35 AM

Isn't one of the Runaways a Mutant?

How they handle that in the show?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138173: Dec 21st 2021 at 7:42:47 AM

They changed the reason for her powers to aliens, coinciding with her mutation in the comics being retconned from the M-gene to genetic engineering.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#138175: Dec 21st 2021 at 9:25:59 AM

There are mutant aliens aren’t there? Huh

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