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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138026: Dec 14th 2021 at 12:37:55 PM

In Moon Knight's case, the story is notoriously nebulous about the source of his multiple personality. Originally they were simply different aliases, but with time (still in Doug Moench's run that created the character, so it wasn't a Depending on the Writer thing) he starts to lose track of where one begins and the other ends and the story is ambiguous about the extent of his grip on reality. Following MK's classic beat it became a Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane thing where the personalities might also be a divine intervention from Khonshu. In the Warren Ellis run it's implied he's simply brain damaged from the near death experience that serves as his origin story.

Jeff Lemire's run, which is the most psychological-based of MK's runs (starting with the character in a insane asylum and trying to break out) introduces the idea that all of MK's personalities were in fact from his traumatic childhood (the suave rich playboy Steve Grant being a escape from his status as a poor immigrant's son and the cocky Jake being a escape from his rigid orthodox jewish upbringing), but they were repressed in his teen years and came back with a vengeance after the near-death experience.

Or perhaps not. As noted, the run is very much defined by the fact we're witnessing events Through the Eyes of Madness and MK's grip on reality is very shaky, with the possibility being raised he has in fact created his entire character story while interned in the aforementioned insane asylum (so all the comics we've read up to this point and possibly the entire marvel universe might just be figments of Marc Spcector's imagination). He's in all likelihood clinically schizophrenic either way, so pretty much everything in that run is a Ambiguous Situation.

I personally hope the MCU takes some real cues from Lemire's run. Its discussions on the limit of sanity and the reality we perceive are fascinating. I'd love if we got the implication the entire MCU up to this point may or may not be all a figment of Marc Spector's splintered imagination.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138027: Dec 14th 2021 at 12:49:22 PM

The simplicity in the Hulk’s portrayal prolly has to do with the fact he’s been treated as largely a supporting character to other people’s stories.

Hopefully if he ever stars in something it goes in depth on the Hulk personalities.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138028: Dec 14th 2021 at 12:49:52 PM

Dang I need to get my hands on that Lamire run.

But yes, the Moonknight mythology being so ambiguous about his mental health means I have no idea what to expect from the adaptation.

Which leaves open a fair bit of room for mishandling.

Not to mention a violent impulsive vigilante isn't the beeeeessst depiction of a DID system.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138029: Dec 14th 2021 at 12:51:52 PM

Well technically he starts as a mercenary in part a rebellion of his orthodox Jewish upbringing and only becomes a vigilante under the belief that Khonshu is guiding him as the protector of those who travel at night.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138030: Dec 14th 2021 at 12:54:36 PM

I'll give you that. I wouldn't hate it if the show depicts the violence being due to the pressure of an extant force.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#138031: Dec 14th 2021 at 11:38:45 PM

Spector was always violent before the whole Khonshu thing, so that pitfall at least is (usually) sidestepped.

He just went from being violent for money to being violent in the name of Khonshu (... Maybe.)

Edited by jakobitis on Dec 14th 2021 at 11:39:54 AM

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#138032: Dec 14th 2021 at 11:40:43 PM

Heck, in the comics Marc's admitted that one of the reasons he took Khonshu's offer was because he was a violent man who wanted to keep being violent.

Disgusted, but not surprised
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#138033: Dec 14th 2021 at 11:45:28 PM

Yeah, even in the early comics, it's implied that Moon Knight and his two alters (Marlene refers to the "four of [them]" at one point are a better person than Marc Spector was.

Especially as some later books put the idea out there that in his time at the CIA, Mark was doin worse things than he ever did as Moon Knight.

Also, I figure they'll update his backstory to fighting in the Iraq War and the South Sudanese Civil War-if they bother to name where he was at all.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#138034: Dec 14th 2021 at 11:49:30 PM

Moon Knight's a case of Crazy Sane. Sure he may be deluding himself into thinking he's the champion of an Egyptian moon deity (and him actually being one doesn't mean he isn't mentally unstable either). But this delusion is what lets him channel his addiction to violence into a more productive and beneficial manner than when he was a mercenary.

If it is a delusion, it's a delusion that drives Marc Spector to be a productive if unconventional member of society as opposed to a violent thug who preys on it.

Edited by M84 on Dec 15th 2021 at 3:50:45 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#138035: Dec 15th 2021 at 12:02:38 AM

The same run that really popularized most to the modern takes on Marc-the ultraviolence, the more explicit mental illness, also wasn't shy about Khonshu being real.

Khonshu is basically a character all his own in that run, appearing as various dead people, but usually Bushmaster, after Marc famously cut his face off.

I don't know for sure if Bushmaster will appear in the show, but if he does I hope they just call him Raul. It would be weird to cut him out of Marc's origin story since even if he isn't the main villain of the show, he is basically Marc's Starter Villain.

SAwatching from south africa Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138036: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:40:10 AM

An interview from The Direct with one of the directors I think confirmed that Moon Knight is going to be violent, comparing it to Falcon and Winter Soldier ep.5.

Definitely going to be playing a bit with DID, especially with being the Patron of a moon god. Though I would love to see them play with the ambiguous situation of it all. Probably a few themes of mental health and identity but for a pure representation of DID, probably not an action genre.

[up] Moon Knight would be the first Diseny+ show to have no connection to well the movie avengers. Wanda Vision-self-explanatory, Loki-long running villain, Falcon and Winter Soldier- Sam and Buckey with Captian America legacy, Hawkeye-Clint and introducing Kate, She-hulk-features hulk and introducing Jen. (those last two feel like a passing on of the torch)

Sincerely S Awatching.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138037: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:45:02 AM

If one well it could wind up being the spiritual successor to Daredevil.

Even more striking a comparison since MK does deal in topics of faith in Marc's Judaism similar to Matt's Catholicism.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138038: Dec 15th 2021 at 3:08:30 AM

I feel like the Moonknight and Echo series are likely to establish what Daredevil in the MCU would feel like, and might even make me feel like we don't need a DD show.

Though I'd be happy for Matt to be a supporting character in Echo, Spidey and She Hulk's stories for a little while perhaps. I'd rather have a heroes for hire show prior to a Daredevil one because it would feel new.

Dang right Marc is going to be entirely unconnected to anyone else in the MCU, that's going to be pretty refreshing I think?

Both Shang Chi and even the Eternals were dealing with mythology previously touched on, Moonknight is going to be entirely new.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#138039: Dec 15th 2021 at 4:23:56 AM

Raul is Marc's Arch-Enemy. So I expect him to appear eventually. Just maybe not in the first season.

Dude is like one of the most insanely jack of all trades villains ever. He's been a serial killer, assassin, crime lord, terrorist and even dictator.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SAwatching from south africa Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#138040: Dec 15th 2021 at 6:56:12 AM

I recently found out that Ego was not owned by Marvel but by Fox until the absorption, and Hulk is licensed to Universal. Sony obviously owns Spider-man properties.

What I want to know is which characters does Marvel Studios not own?

Sincerely S Awatching.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#138041: Dec 15th 2021 at 7:08:55 AM

Universal also had Namor, but that's possibly back at Marvel Studios now.

Other than that I think that's everything.

Oh save for the fact that universal has the theme park rights to most all of the famous Marvel characters, and that's why the Marvel section of Disney world is focused on the guardians of the Galaxy.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#138042: Dec 15th 2021 at 7:10:24 AM

Right now it's mostly just Spider-Man and associated characters are licensed to Sony, but they have an ongoing partnership so they can still have MCU apperences.

The Hulk rights are a bit more complicated. Universal owns the distribution rights of any solo Hulk film, but Marvel has the production rights.

What this means is that Marvel could make a solo Hulk film, but then Universal would get both final say in when and how it's released, as well as a big chunk of the profits.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138043: Dec 15th 2021 at 7:36:03 AM

So can we discuss Hawkeye's big reveal here, or should I go to the Hawkeye forum to talk about it?

Because that reveal does have some big implications for the MCU as a whole, and I'm curious to see what others think of it...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#138044: Dec 15th 2021 at 7:37:16 AM

Go their for now.

Maybe in a few days we can talk about it here. When everyone has seen it. Just to be fair imo since it just came out today.

Edited by miraculous on Dec 15th 2021 at 7:41:04 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#138045: Dec 15th 2021 at 7:41:22 AM

[up] Fair enough.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#138046: Dec 15th 2021 at 11:48:23 AM

Ya know First Installment Wins is a weird thing. Years can pass but despite a lot of stuff happening since the first thing is always heavily referenced because thats somehow the main most people remember.

Any time the Avengers has a thing the line-up is almost always the movie 6. And due to the rigidity of it they never try to avert smurfette principle with Black Widow always being the only female Avenger. I mean sure Justice League has that problem where Wonder Woman is the only female leaguer but at least the MCU has some high-profile female heroes but regardless its always only Nat used.

If Wasp appears it tends to be Hope so she's a later recruit and Scarlet Witch rarely ever appears, rather sad in the latter's case.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#138047: Dec 15th 2021 at 12:07:37 PM

The movie was good but lack of creativity and chasing the Iconic Synergy poisoned a lot of things that came after

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#138048: Dec 15th 2021 at 1:53:43 PM

I just had a dream that I went to go see Spider-Man: No Way Home in the theater with my college class, and I spent the first half sleeping through it and making up my own dream-storyline of the film and the second half avoiding my classmates because of COVID who kept insisting on sitting next to me. I realized after the movie ended that the whole experience was a dream, and deliberately walked out of the theater without pants on to prove it, then got a ride home from one of my classmates before I FINALLY woke up for real.

I dreamed some pretty wild stuff to happen in the movie, though. My dream within a dream idea of how the movie went was Tom Spidey, Andrew Spidey, and Tobey Spidey sneaking around a military base and taking out guards with their webs. They were trying to interrupt some radio message from being sent out, but when they got to the room, Tom Spidey attached a web to the radio transmitter and the ceiling, and they could see the radio waves moving through the web, indicating that they were too late and the message got out.

Then once I woke up in the theater and started watching it, it got even weirder. Tom Spidey was laying on a bed at home and some random old guy was in his house (might have been Uncle Ben, he didn't get a name). He was holding a ziplock bag with two giant crystals in it, and one of the crystals touched the other crystal and got liquified. Tom Spidey touched the liquified crystal and it absorbed into his skin, then his arm grew giant and two regular-ass hedgehogs kinda glorped out of his hand. The hedgehogs looked in the mirrors of his bedroom and mutated and transformed horrifically into Tobey Spidey and Andrew Spidey, and that was their official introduction to the MCU.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 15th 2021 at 2:54:12 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#138049: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:19:10 PM

[up] Man, people weren't kidding when they said there'd be ''No Way Home'' spoilers everywhere. tongue

I'm reminded of a Spider-Man dream that I had, although this was before No Way Home was announced. This one featured Peter trying to stop a truck going wild on the highway, only to see that the driver was Deadpool. The two start bantering with each other as Spidey tries to get the truck under control, and Deadpool ends up saying the f-word. This leads to this little exchange:

Peter: Hey, you can't say that!
Wade: Why not?
Peter: Because old ladies might hear us.

This leads to Deadpool taking the truck down a small street, slowing driving past some old ladies on the sidewalk, and loudly shouts "HEY, THIS GUY JUST SAID THE F-WORD!" while pointing at Spidey.

Kind of silly, but it's something that I can actually see happening in a Deadpool/Spider-Man movie.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Dec 15th 2021 at 5:20:09 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#138050: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:24:26 PM

I didn’t have a dream of watching No Way Home but I had a dream I was reading No Way Home spoilers on my phone. tongue

Dream Reddit says She-Hulk appears in this movie, totally legit source I swear.


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