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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#137776: Dec 8th 2021 at 6:54:21 PM

Late, but I did greatly enjoy Punisher too. In fact, I consider its first season to be one of the strongest of the Netflix shows. Season 2 was still good, but misjuggled two entirely separate plotlines to its detriment.

I just didn't mention it since it was able to conclude on a satisfactory, completed note unlike Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

I still like to rewatch that scene of Frank finally killing Agent Orange. Absolutely brutal. evil grin

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Dec 8th 2021 at 9:55:46 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#137777: Dec 8th 2021 at 7:00:08 PM

You guys know that, if they bring back the Netflix actors in the same roles, they're not going to be direct continuations of those shows, right? Punisher ending conclusively and Luke Cage ending on a cliffhanger doesn't matter, both shows are in the same boat because if Punisher and Luke come back, they won't be referencing the Netflix shows one way or another.

Marvel can re-use those characters with the same actors, but tying them too much back to the older shows would get them into legal trouble with Netflix, and Feige wouldn't want to make fans have to watch the Netflix shows to understand these characters anyway, they're going to be introduced as entirely new versions of those characters.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#137778: Dec 8th 2021 at 7:03:33 PM

We've really just gone full circle with comic book reading. Now movie-only fans will understand the feeling of picking up a comic book and having no idea what the backgrounds of half the characters are.

Edited by Synchronicity on Dec 8th 2021 at 9:04:02 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#137779: Dec 8th 2021 at 7:35:25 PM

Daredevil almost by accident ended up the show better positioned for a Broad Strokes continuation. You could semi-easily reintroduce the cast and just vaguely allude that something like seasons 1-3 happened in the past, although some loose ends will be there (like Bullseye and how to get out of the Mutually Assured Destruction deal DD and Fisk had in season 3).

In my opinion of the netflix shows, they were usually plagued by similar flaws and similar strengths. Netlix didn't have the budget/the willingness/the competence to really make the high-level superheroics stuff (the later Legacy of Jupiter being a famously costly fiasco), so with the marvel shows they played to their strengths and focused on what Netflix was famous for: strong atmosphere, mature themes and strong character writing. This worked fantastically for DD and JJ, mixed for Luke Cage, badly for IF (the most traditional superhero of the bunch).

Daredevil was as close to perfect of a Daredevil adaptation as one could reasonably expect, particularly when it comes to the Miller-Brubaker-Bendis-ish years. The tone, the colors, the set design, the choreography, the cast, the soundtrack, the themes, all was incredibly perfect, even with the show's flaws (e.g The Hand, and that was a funny case where the show's flaw was basically being too faithful to the comics: the Hand do indeed have a habit of being Generic Doomsday Villain types covered up simply on the fact they look cool). This is part of why I'm not as interested in the MCU keeping up with it. It's borderline impossible to catch that lightning in a bottle twice, particularly with a different cast, creative team and creative conditions. They've shown a willingness to bring back the cast, but the jury's still out on the latter two (Drew Goddard and Erik Oleson, showrunners of season 1 and 3, haven't even been mentioned).

Jessica Jones s1 is a great adaptation of her original miniseries, if stretched thin over too many episodes (as it's often noted, Kilgrave gets captured and escapes three consecutive times) a trend that ends up reccurring in the netflix shows. Seasons 2-3 seemed like they simply had nothing of significance to add to the character and just sort of floated by.

Luke Cage season 1 notoriously has a great first half and a mediocre second half that becomes terrible by sheer juxtaposition (compared to how great it was before), split almost evenly by Cottonmouth's death. Season 2 largely fixes those issues, so cheers on that. But both JJ and LC suffered from their length being simply unnecesary.

Punisher I thought was very mediocre and confused politically and thematically, particularly in season 1. IF's been talked to death.

What I'll miss most about the netflix shows were their thematic maturity and boldness. JJ discussing rape culture, DD catholicism and gentrification, Luke Cage discussing Black Lives Matter and urban segregation in the manner they did was simply fantastic and refreshing in a way I am very skeptical of the MCU repeating. Disneyplus did wonderfully with reflecting on grief and loss with Wandavision, but Falcon & the winter soldier on the other hand had one of the stupidest political discussions I've seen in my life, so I'm very 50-50 on this whole thing here (Loki and Hawkeye are outside of that whole spectrum, more spectacle than intellectual themes).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#137780: Dec 8th 2021 at 7:45:06 PM

Luke Cage is weird to me because, while I think Luke himself is an alright character, it's really most of the surrounding cast who catch my interest compared to Daredevil or Jessica Jones. I remembered talking to one friend who joked that the Netflix version of Luke Cage would be the type of person to yell at people to pull up their pants and stuff, and it brings to mind that there was some discussion somewhere (might have been here or on another website) of Luke accidentally coming across as a *conservative* character.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137781: Dec 8th 2021 at 7:46:21 PM

I think the Disney shows are better at tackling more abstract themes that are meant to be applied to any situation than they are with dealing with very real and political ideas that are still affecting the world today.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#137782: Dec 8th 2021 at 7:55:15 PM

[up][up] That view seems to have come from him reacting badly to being called the n word (the scene also establishes he's been having a rough day and the impact of everything he's been through in general since he was framed and sent to prison is getting to him).

There are people who will make some strange reaches when it comes to a character's political views. I've seen the same accusations of conservatism thrown at Superman & Lois's versions of the titular characters.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137783: Dec 8th 2021 at 7:57:56 PM

Unrelated to the current topic, but apparently No Way Home was initially pitched as a Spider-Man vs. Kraven the Hunter story in case the multiverse idea fell through.

Honestly not sure if I'd prefer that over what we have right now or not...

Edited by MatthewWayne on Dec 8th 2021 at 7:58:16 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#137784: Dec 8th 2021 at 7:59:57 PM

Luke Cage's netflix self does skew more serious and straitlaced than most version of his comic self, who has more of a sense of humour and can be more lighthearted about thhings.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#137785: Dec 8th 2021 at 8:04:10 PM

I didn't watch much of Luke Cage, but in the second episode he has a discussion with Pops of Black mystery writers/Black detective characters. Luke likes the Easy Rawlings books of Walter Mosley (who has "respectability politics as part of his characterization, and ) and Pops likes books with a "Blaxpoitation"/Black Power theme. And I think makes a comment about Luke being Conservative, or something to that effect (correct me if I'm wrong here).

Now I think the Netflix version of Luke is more of a Black Conservative in the way of Barack Obama than in the way of Clarence Thomas, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that the comics version of the character would be a lot more like Pops.

Edited by Hodor2 on Dec 8th 2021 at 8:05:25 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#137786: Dec 8th 2021 at 8:07:05 PM

I chalked it up to Luke being the son of a Southern preacher more than anything, honestly.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#137787: Dec 8th 2021 at 8:09:08 PM

Luke Cage always brings Mr. T to my mind for whatever reason. He does give off that "I pity the fool." energy.

The legend has returned.
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#137788: Dec 8th 2021 at 8:10:38 PM

That view seems to have come from him reacting badly to being called the n word (the scene also establishes he's been having a rough day and the impact of everything he's been through in general since he was framed and sent to prison is getting to him).

That scene is PART of it but I recall there being more examples used to make that particular point. I'm in no position to say whether or not the criticism is correct, but I do feel like it mostly comes from how Luke is characterized compared to his comic counterpart.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#137789: Dec 8th 2021 at 9:42:05 PM

All I want from Guardians 3 is a bigger role for Marvel's best cosmic character, Cosmo the telepathic Soviet canine cosmonaut. All he's gotten is a brief cameo in the Collector's collection.

The recent video game did pretty well by him. Da, Cosmo was best boy in that game, comrade. But I'd like to see him get his props in the MCU.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#137790: Dec 8th 2021 at 9:44:19 PM

I want to see more Cosmo as well. If only because I love dogs and always want to see more of them.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137791: Dec 8th 2021 at 10:18:37 PM

Is Cosmo really that big of a deal? I'm not an avid comic reader so I don't know, but I always thought he was some kind of Running Gag Joke Character.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Dec 8th 2021 at 10:19:05 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#137792: Dec 8th 2021 at 10:24:34 PM

Unrelated to the current topic, but apparently No Way Home was initially pitched as a Spider-Man vs. Kraven the Hunter story in case the multiverse idea fell through.

Honestly not sure if I'd prefer that over what we have right now or not...

Well, I’ve been waiting for a Kraven film for awhile (he probably would have worked well in a story where Peter’s identity is out and people have a reason to fear him), and I’ll admit to being a LITTLE concerned about how they handle this whole multiverse thing. If you had asked me, say, before all of this was announced, I’d have said go with Kraven.

Still, I don’t know how well No Way Home handles all of this and how it ties into their larger narrative, so we’ll see how it goes.

Oh God! Natural light!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137793: Dec 8th 2021 at 10:26:24 PM

[up][up] He's actually a pretty big deal.

For one thing he is the head security of Nowhere, his authority something everyone respects and generally fears his anger.

And he's an incredibly powerful psychic which is why everyone fears him because he can easily knock out a large group of people with little effort.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 8th 2021 at 10:26:45 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#137794: Dec 8th 2021 at 10:28:11 PM

He soloed an alt universe Hulk that was hopped up on many tentacled ones

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137795: Dec 8th 2021 at 10:30:22 PM

He's more of a lethal joke character as while telepathic Cosmonaut dog sounds funny, he's also unironically incredibly strong.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137796: Dec 8th 2021 at 10:43:29 PM

Damn. Guess I should never doubt the power of Soviet Russia...

[up][up][up][up] Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I would've gone for the Kraven storyline since it seems more grounded and more unique than "copy-and-paste Spider-Verse but with mindless fanservice". Also, I really, really, really want to see Kraven. Even if I don't think Aaron-Taylor Johnson is the right choice for the role.

But... I have to admit I'm letting the fanservice get to me. I really did like the other two Spider-Man franchises, and it will be cool to see what's happened in them since we last saw them.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Dec 8th 2021 at 10:47:24 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#137797: Dec 9th 2021 at 9:39:57 AM

Don't mess with Cosmo. He once took down Adam Warlock to protect a group of Skrull refugees.

He did the same thing to the entire Guardians of the Galaxy group and a group of alien Avengers called the Luminals simultaneously in the same arc. We don't even see the fight. We just see the Luminals make a terrible mistake, and that's that.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137798: Dec 9th 2021 at 9:44:48 AM

[up] Wow. That's...pretty cool actually.

How did Cosmo get his powers? I know he was a dog the Soviet Union sent up into space who never returned at some point, but that's all I know.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#137799: Dec 9th 2021 at 9:46:27 AM

Cosmic rays apparently

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#137800: Dec 9th 2021 at 9:53:50 AM

Yeah, cosmic rays. His ship was lost in space, bombarded with cosmic rays, and then he wound up at Knowhere. Same power origin as the Fantastic Four. Cosmo moved in, became chief of security, and has been working there ever since.

He's a somewhat minor character since he's stapled to a specific location in the Marvel cosmology. Though IIRC, he has filled the role of Big Good Mission Control, orchestrating the Guardians of the Galaxy for a time.

Cosmo strikes a nice balance of wacky concept and epic badassery, which is what makes him my favorite cosmic character. I wish we got to see more of him in the MCU.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 9th 2021 at 9:55:38 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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