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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#137701: Dec 6th 2021 at 7:21:15 PM

I don't really expect it either (shame, because he grew on me in season 2), but this is news to me. Do you have a link corroborating this?

This, I believe.

Personally, I'm taking it with a grain of salt because the way I see it, Jones did put in the effort, it's just that he didn't have the prep time because he was kinda eleventh hour casting. He was cast in February 2016, and shooting on Iron Fist season 1 started that March. One month to bulk up, which requires a lot of training (and eating) in itself, get a crash course in martial arts to pull off the more contemplative close up moments, learn the scripts, and move from London to New York City.

Edited by dmcreif on Dec 6th 2021 at 10:21:34 AM

Okey Dokey!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137702: Dec 6th 2021 at 7:28:29 PM

It never stops to astound me how Daredevil was the only Defender to actually wear his comic attire.

Granted Jess is always in plainclothes but Luke spends way too much time in a plain-ass black hoodie and Iron Fist didn't wear anything cool at all.

They couldn't even have him wear stuff in green and gold, the fucking bare minimum they could not do.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137703: Dec 6th 2021 at 8:06:13 PM

[up] I think Marvel Entertainment wasn't exactly aware that Movie Superheroes Wear Black had been discredited by the mainline MCU at that point. Though then again, given how much jealousy Perlmutter and his cronies had for Feige, maybe they enforced it on the Netflix shows out of spite.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Dec 6th 2021 at 8:06:44 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#137704: Dec 6th 2021 at 8:37:50 PM

I just hope the Shang-Chi sequel reveals the rings have unique powers Wenwu never learned how to utilize. Partly to bring them more in line with the comics, but mostly because I found the rings combat to be a let down compared to the excellent martial arts choreography.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#137705: Dec 6th 2021 at 8:43:22 PM

It's possible.

Wen-Wu had them for years, but Shang managed to use them in a way that sent out a huge signal to Kamar Taj on the first try.

It wouldn't surprise me if he never learned their full abilities either due to never needing to, or because he never had the right mind set to try.

One Strip! One Strip!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137706: Dec 6th 2021 at 9:05:28 PM

I'll admit, I'm kind of hoping we do get some more comic-accurate usage of the rings. Not quite to Infinity Stone levels, but it would be cool to see Shang-Chi turn invisible, shoot elemental powers, slow down time and manipulate minds amongst other things.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#137707: Dec 7th 2021 at 12:59:15 AM

And then even Daredevil went back to his Beta Outfit in Season 3.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 7th 2021 at 9:59:35 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#137708: Dec 7th 2021 at 1:25:07 AM

Season 3 was very much trying to catch Season 1's lightning in a bottle.

Which isn't strictly a bad thing, it was a very good season, but still pretty obvious.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#137709: Dec 7th 2021 at 4:55:27 AM

It never stops to astound me how Daredevil was the only Defender to actually wear his comic attire.

Granted Jess is always in plainclothes but Luke spends way too much time in a plain-ass black hoodie and Iron Fist didn't wear anything cool at all.

They couldn't even have him wear stuff in green and gold, the fucking bare minimum they could not do.

In fairness to Luke, his "costumes" in the comics are just regular clothes. Even his original outfit wasn't anything standout aside from the head band.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#137710: Dec 7th 2021 at 6:18:16 AM

Not seeing Danny in his comics costume is the one let down I feel.

Luke in the comics had been going for a more down to earth look for over a decade by that point.

Even if Matt wasn't wearing his red costume in series three that costume was still getting plenty of play.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#137711: Dec 7th 2021 at 8:34:17 AM

Yeah Luke Cage's "iconic" costume is basically just a yellow shirt and jeans. Which Netflix did do at least once, so there's that at least.

Meanwhile Jessica Jones was more often in civilian clothes for a while before the show, but the specific leather jacket and scarf ensemble is to my knowledge an invention from the show that the comics and other media have since lifted.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#137712: Dec 7th 2021 at 9:36:02 AM

Even when Netflix referenced the 70's Luke Cage outfit, they had him say "I look like a damned fool". Though admittedly, that costume in the comics has a very divisive reputation among the fanbase, to my understanding.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137713: Dec 7th 2021 at 11:01:32 AM

Sure Luke doesn’t actually wear a costume but he does have an iconic civie spandex look.

The bright yellow t-shirt is fairly distinctive but the show rarely has him in it instead mostly having him in a generic black hoodie with only a barely visible yellow inner stuff.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#137714: Dec 7th 2021 at 11:15:25 PM

They didn't even give Luke his yellow t-shirt. That's not difficult.

The Netflix shows always seem like they are embarrassed to be in the superhero genre. That's why I don't mourn their loss.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137715: Dec 8th 2021 at 2:12:20 PM

[up] Ah yes, the classic "We're totally gritty crime dramas for adults, we swear!" syndrome popularized by Christopher Nolan.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#137716: Dec 8th 2021 at 2:28:02 PM

I think with DD and JJ this approach worked mostly like a charm. Luke Cage it had mixed results, and with Iron Fist it was simply completely boneheaded.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137717: Dec 8th 2021 at 2:41:39 PM

What was up with the Luke Cage show exactly?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#137718: Dec 8th 2021 at 3:04:14 PM

I don't think it's fair to blame Nolan Batman for overly realistic and edgy superheroes. It's a fitting tone for Batman, not very different from what you can find in modern comics, and a direction most fans were grateful for after the last movie. I mean, sure, Batman has had plenty of more "comic booky" interpretations, but it's not as if Nolan Batman would feel out of place if put beside his comic-book counterparts, the way some of the Film X-Men would for example.

And even putting all of that aside, realism-ized superheroes were pretty much the default for movies pre-MCU. The ones like Superman and Spider-Man actually wearing colorful costumes and using their hero names were very much the exception.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#137719: Dec 8th 2021 at 3:06:40 PM

I most certainly wouldn't cite the Marvel Netflix stuff as "Trying too hard to be edgy" content.

Titans (2018) is what comes to my mind in that regard first. With them apparently thinking that dropping the F-Bomb in like every second sentence is somehow mature.

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AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#137720: Dec 8th 2021 at 3:08:00 PM

The Netflix shows are definitely grim, but the darker aspects of them are all perfectly appropriate for the kinds of stories they're trying to tell. It doesn't feel dark for darkness's sake which is how I'd characterize most "edgy" things.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#137721: Dec 8th 2021 at 3:09:28 PM

The tone felt appropriate for Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Luke Cage could adapt to the tone and Iron Fist uh not as much

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#137722: Dec 8th 2021 at 3:12:26 PM

You know, I had heard about the phenomenon that MCU movies tend to have weak third acts, but then it really hit me that there really aren't that many third acts in Marvel movies that I do like. So maybe they were onto something.

I dunno, maybe it's not the movies. Maybe I just don't like endings. XD

Edited by GNinja on Dec 8th 2021 at 11:13:10 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#137723: Dec 8th 2021 at 3:17:10 PM

Ah man, talking about these Netflix shows just brings back the memories and the pain of having 3 out of 5 of them ending with open plot threads (though Daredevil was way less bad off in that regard than both Luke Cage and particularly Iron Fist).

Only Jessica Jones and The Punisher had conclusive endings for their characters.

And with the Broad Strokes approach these characters are gonna get (if they get any at all, that is), they will probably never, ever be resolved.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 8th 2021 at 12:17:58 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#137724: Dec 8th 2021 at 3:26:35 PM

It's funny, as much as Shang-Chi stole from Iron Fist, Iron Fist stole from Moon Knight with the whole "is he crazy or supernatural" thing.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137725: Dec 8th 2021 at 3:30:56 PM

Generally while Luke is pretty light-hearted for the most part he does fight mobsters and such so he does slot himself into the crime drama well for the most part.

Iron Fist though yeah no. Hell the differing genres of action with Luke and IF is the whole point of their buddy cop dynamic.

Turning IF gritty and grounded misses the point of his character.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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