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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#137351: Nov 22nd 2021 at 5:44:17 AM

I think the dumbest thing about the "kill MJ to get REAL MJ" people is... like, do you think the GA is gonna roll with that? Hell, I don't like the stupid "Oh haha she's not Mary Jane, she's MJ" meta bit from Homecoming, but now that I'm no longer afraid Michelle is going to supplant Mary Jane in the comics anymore, I'm fine with most of the things they've done regarding this character and her relationship with Peter.

But even if I did still have a problem with it, I guarantee I'd have more of a problem with killing her off and bringing in a more "comics accurate" Mary Jane, because ultimately, there's no way to do that which'd make his relationship with the new MJ feel anything other than problematic. It'd make a hypothetical "real" MJ feel like a shallow replacement for Zendaya, and really push Peter from the ideal "been through some shit but still keeps it together" to "he is CLEARLY using her as a Replacement Goldfish". It's actual chemistry poison.

But of course none of the people who want this think about that.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#137352: Nov 22nd 2021 at 5:47:37 AM

[up][up]It definatly feels like a closer adaptation of the character than we saw in the Ramni films.

Edited by Whowho on Nov 22nd 2021 at 1:48:28 PM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#137353: Nov 22nd 2021 at 5:58:15 AM

[up][up] Even Sony knew to hold off on Shailene Woodley's MJ because they knew it would be bad vibes.

If anything that shot of her falling from the construction zone would be a good (if lowbrow) way to introduce Garfield, insert something about cinematic parallels here.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 22nd 2021 at 8:07:22 AM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#137354: Nov 22nd 2021 at 6:06:16 AM

The Garfield Spider-Man would certainly appreciate being able to right that wrong for someone else.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#137355: Nov 22nd 2021 at 7:25:46 AM

I love how her name is Michelle, but we all call her Mary Jane.

As for the race thing, as long as MCU MJ captures the spirit of Comic MJ, it's good for me.

Poor Gwen, as we sort of noted in the comic thread for Spidey, her only value was a love interest to Peter because that's all her character was back in the 60s.

Peter moved on to Mary Jane really fast after Gwen died.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 22nd 2021 at 10:26:50 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#137356: Nov 22nd 2021 at 7:31:48 AM

Garfield crossover with Spiderman when?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137357: Nov 22nd 2021 at 7:33:27 AM

[up][up] Oh fuck that’s funny.

Like I legit forgot that her name is Michelle, never really bothered to remember it.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#137358: Nov 22nd 2021 at 8:40:34 AM

If you want, you can just pretend that MJ's family is in witness protection, so while her real name is Mary Jane Watson, she had to change it to Michelle, and telling people to call her MJ is a way of getting around people calling her by a fake name.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#137359: Nov 22nd 2021 at 8:42:56 AM

[up][up] Like she's basically Mary Jane so I'm calling her Mary Jane.

[up] Mary Jane's dad is actually abusive and a powerful man, so that might have some merit.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:43:27 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#137360: Nov 22nd 2021 at 8:50:55 AM

Wasnt he involved in crime too?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137361: Nov 22nd 2021 at 9:24:27 AM

[up][up] Its like if Luke Cage's real name is like Nathaniel Drivens.

Your still gonna call him Luke always because thats his main name.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#137362: Nov 22nd 2021 at 9:31:56 AM

His real name is Carl Lucas

Although he’s pretty much sticking with Luke Cage as his Real name post gaining powers and becoming a superhero. Even after he’s no longer in trouble for escaping jail

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#137363: Nov 22nd 2021 at 9:51:52 AM

The Garfield Spider-Man would certainly appreciate being able to right that wrong for someone else.
I'd love a version of that scene where it's Spider-Gwen rescuing MJ. I doubt they'd do it, but maybe in the Spiderverse animated sequel...

I want so badly for Erin Kellyman to play a racebent redhead so we can see people admit in real time that it's not the Adaptational Dye-Job people are mad about. (She did in Les Misérables (2018) but colorblind period dramas don't grind people's gears quite as much anymore.)
There's still a few people who think that's what's going on with her character in the Willow series (basically that she's a grown up version of the baby in the original film), but she's currently got a different character name/description in the cast list.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#137364: Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:20:43 AM

Wasnt he involved in crime too?

I recall he once made MJ's sister steal a manuscript for him.

Zarius Since: Nov, 2012
#137365: Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:21:50 AM

MJ and her dad made up during the Clone Saga, and he's never appeared or been mentioned since.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#137366: Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:25:24 AM

weird fact I learned,Mary Jane's name comes from some shoes.no really

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#137367: Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:37:55 AM

Well, she was created as a cool, fashionable girl that became a model, so it fits pretty well.

Besides, it beats the other meaning of the name and her party girl characterization, at least.

Wake me up at your own risk.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#137368: Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:43:17 AM

Interestingly, one blog once mentioned that it made sense that MJ never did drugs or alcohol because it could potentially result in her revealing vulnerabilities she wanted to keep secret.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#137369: Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:48:00 AM

Michelle not literally just being Mary Jane is something that's always been kind of odd, given how clearly she takes after the character. I always figured it was either due to one of two things:

  • She was originally written and intended to be Mary Jane, but they were told by Marvel top brass she couldn't be mid-development and so they renamed her while still giving her the same nickname. Homecoming would've been first developed during the period where Marvel was trying in vain to downplay Mary Jane's existence, so that's possible.
  • She was never intended to be Mary Jane and always intended to be an OC, and they threw in her having the MJ nickname after the fact in response to the buzz surrounding the character. That the developers' first take on "is she MJ" was a Sure, Why Not? and the actual scene in which she takes on the nickname is something of a throwaway postscript scene could lend itself to this.

Either way, it was super awkward at first, but it's been years and the character is great so by now it's whatever.

I do wonder if Doc Ock or Osborn will comment on it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:50:16 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#137370: Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:53:28 AM

> Mary Jane (slang), a slang term for marijuana.

Well,I never

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#137371: Nov 22nd 2021 at 11:54:41 AM

Michelle may not be even somewhat close to Mary Jane as a character but she’s a hell of a lot better than the Raimi trilogy’s version.

The legend has returned.
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#137372: Nov 22nd 2021 at 12:01:26 PM

There's the tradeoff though that Raimi's Mary Jane had a life outside of Peter, while I feel Michelle falls more into the lines of Satellite Love Interest.

Okey Dokey!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137373: Nov 22nd 2021 at 12:04:08 PM

In fairness thats prolly a consequence of the how fairly bottled the settings of the movies are.

Like Far From Home took place entirely during a school fieldtrip so there wasn't really any time for MJ to do her own thing.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#137374: Nov 22nd 2021 at 12:28:34 PM

It's funny to think that Holland's Spider-Man's done more out-of-state travel than any of the other Spider-Men to date. He's been to Leipzig, Washington DC, Titan, Upstate New York, Venice, Prague, London, and the Mirror Dimension.

Okey Dokey!
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#137375: Nov 22nd 2021 at 3:18:45 PM

Finally got to watch Shang-Chi... Actually a really fun movie, looking forward to the sequel. Hopefully there will still be a good amount of non-powered hand-to-hand combat, because the fight choreography was one of my favorite parts.


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