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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#137101: Nov 15th 2021 at 9:10:24 AM

I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#137102: Nov 15th 2021 at 9:50:50 AM

New poster for NWH feat. Tom, Ben, and Al. It doesn't really tell us anything we don't already know, but the trailer dropping tomorrow might.

DoubleOG (Apprentice)
#137103: Nov 15th 2021 at 10:40:11 AM

Nate Moore, Marvel Studios VP of Development says they've never considered recasting T'Challa after Chadwick Boseman died.

'You will not see T'Challa in the MCU 616 universe'.

This basically confirms what some of us have speculated regarding the Black Panther's future.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137104: Nov 15th 2021 at 10:43:58 AM

[up] While I will hope that the film does honor Chadwick's legacy in some way, I still can't help but worry that Wakanda Forever will be the cinematic equivalent of watching a chicken run around with its head cut off.

Also, those who dislike Letitia Wright aren't going to be happy that the likelihood of her taking up the Black Panther mantle just shot up.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#137105: Nov 15th 2021 at 10:56:01 AM

Wait, why'd they call the MCU "616"?

Are they trying to imply that the movies have superseded the comics as the main canon now?

Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks Marathon
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#137106: Nov 15th 2021 at 11:04:28 AM

I think it's just bad wording. Seems like he's using 616 in the "Prime Earth" way and saying the "main" MCU works won't feature him anymore, but he could still show up in A Us and tie-ins.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 15th 2021 at 1:05:01 PM

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#137107: Nov 15th 2021 at 11:06:40 AM

I expected they won't recast which I find unfortunate especially since his story had just started. Well my interest in that section of the MCU is gone.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#137108: Nov 15th 2021 at 11:47:33 AM

Shame, of all the post-Infinity Saga stories his was the one I was actually most invested in following. That's killed a lot of my investment in future stories from the MCU.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#137109: Nov 15th 2021 at 11:52:43 AM

Production stills from Hawkeye.

I'll admit it's weird seeing Tony Dalton in a tux when I've only known of him so far as Lalo Salamanca.

Okey Dokey!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#137110: Nov 15th 2021 at 11:55:11 AM

So, someone I know just brought up a big point about Shang-Chi that may connect to another upcoming film. Spoilers for Shang-Chi. Do not read if you have not watched it.

The Dweller in Darkness has lured people to Ta Lo before. It's even said that everyone who came there was brought there by him, with Wen-wu only being special because his possession of the Ten Rings made him the only one who actually had the power to free the Dweller. If we assume that both of Wen-wu's trips to Ta-lo were due to the Dweller, the second time is more notable, because this time the Dweller used use the voice of his wife to bring him there.

Who else do we know who heard the voice of a loved one (or rather loved ones) recently? More to the point, who do we know who's going to be in an upcoming movie, which will have a character who is from the same group as the Dweller in the comics?

Food for thought.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#137111: Nov 15th 2021 at 11:59:54 AM

The MCU in Phase 4 is in a really awkward place where, for all intents and purposes, the story they've been telling is complete and some of its key players have been subsequently written out. Literally HALF of the original Avengers are gone, including all three characters who've been considered leadership figures, and so is the entire Myth Arc, the MacGuffins that the Myth Arc was written about, and the main villain.

So Phase 4 has kind of a "New cast, who dis?" franchise sequel vibe to it. Like a new series of Digimon or a new Star Wars trilogy or something. Same world, same setting, some of the same ideas, but leaving the old characters and story behind and doing something wholly new.

That's not entirely the case; There are pre-Endgame films that will be continuing like Captain Marvel or Dr. Strange, but they're mostly late additions. They do little to counteract the fact that, for some, Endgame feels like a jumping-off point. It feels like an ending, with Phase 4 having to scratch its head and come up with a new beginning for something to replace the Avengers/Thanos/Infinity Gem dynamic that's defined the MCU for over ten years. It's hard to really get a fix on what the MCU is even going to be from this point forward.

Chadwick Boseman dying and his character being retired only enhances that feeling. Black Panther, the character, is over. He wasn't supposed to leave with Captain America, Iron Man, and Black Widow. But he did. So, for all intents and purposes, Black Panther is now also a concluded franchise in search of a new identity much like the rest of the MCU, rather than a continuing work from the pre-Endgame era like Captain Marvel or Dr. Strange.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#137112: Nov 15th 2021 at 12:12:39 PM

They are definitely setting up some big stuff for the future, most notably a possible supervillain team and Kang, and I'm really excited for that stuff.

I'm glad they're not recasting T'Challa. I've always been of the belief that replacing the actor would be a bigger insult than moving the MCU forward without the character, and none of the arguments I've heard have convinced me otherwise. It's sad, but there's nothing that can be done about it.

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#137113: Nov 15th 2021 at 12:22:30 PM

[up][up] What makes the Black Panther part worse is just how clearly the MCU was planning to make him a leading star. It's clear from how much focus he got in What If, it's clear from the now-abandoned planned Star Lord T'Challa spin-off, it's arguably clear from Black Panther's prominence on the new D+ banner. If there's anything that proves that Marvel Studios had no clue Boseman was sick, it's how clearly it built the post-Endgame MCU to have him as one of their new pillars.

There is no way to every 100% recapture that without Boseman, that much is absolutely clear. One of my arguments for recasting was for a path of least resistance, to salvage as much as possible what that path would have been, to maybe try to do it in Boseman's honor now that he couldn't do it himself. Clearly that is now and for the time being will be permanently off the table. So now we have a franchise that was just about to explode into a major corner of the MCU now imploding as it tries to quickly scramble to complete the same degree of rebuilding under far worse circumstances. Black Widow may be dead but at least ScarJo could film a movie all about her passing on the reins and at least Florence Pugh wasn't a goddamn stupid antivaxxer.

Edited by Watchtower on Nov 15th 2021 at 3:23:13 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137114: Nov 15th 2021 at 2:12:51 PM

I just have to wonder why Chadwick didn't give Kevin Feige or any of the higher-ups at Marvel any notice of the fact he had colon cancer. I understand that a desire for privacy may have been a factor, but if there was even the smallest chance of death occuring right as a huge, important franchise was starting up centering around a character like T'Challa, I would've thought Chadwick would've wanted to give Marvel a heads up so they could plan for that scenario. Maybe it could've opened a door to recasting T'Challa if that's what Chadwick wanted.

Again, I completely understand why he didn't say anything. It's just something I wonder about.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#137115: Nov 15th 2021 at 2:19:32 PM

Thanks so much for not releasing movies simultaneously worldwide Disney. I mean, I know you're just a small indie company who can't easily control such things, but it'd sure be nice to not have to have to avoid spoilers across the internet even longer because you decided to arbitrarily release Spider-Man: No Way Home early in the UK.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#137116: Nov 15th 2021 at 2:19:36 PM

In all likelihood, Chadwick Boseman simply thought he would overcome this cancer and telling the studio about it would feel like breathing life into his fears of not overcoming it (as well as obviously making his friends and co-workers worried). By all accounts Boseman was unflinching about it and really 100% confident he would survive and recover, and keeping it close to his chest might have been a tool to keep up that confidence as it often is in these cases.

More speculatively, he might have also been concerned that if he told Disney his health status they'd try to kick him out of the movie(s) and recast the part out of fear for him being a financial liability. Keeping in mind he was diagnosed with (stage III, so fairly advanced) cancer in 2016, so before the first BP was filmed and at a point in time Marvel had more of a leeway to recast him before a hypothetical solo BP movie. This may sound completely heartless (because it kind of is), but it's definitely something you'd consider when dealing with a famously ruthless juggernaut like Disney. They're absolutely liable to pull that off if they think they can get away with it.

Edited by Gaon on Nov 15th 2021 at 2:22:40 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#137117: Nov 15th 2021 at 2:25:44 PM

Its his business and God's now unfortunely, although I expect in future something will surface

[up][up][up]

Edited by Ultimatum on Nov 15th 2021 at 10:37:12 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#137118: Nov 15th 2021 at 2:39:50 PM

[up][up][up]...You know release dates tend not to be the same everywhere, right? Even for the MCU — even Endgame came out in many markets two days before the US premiere date. At least they kept it within a few days [laughs in Dune (2021) rollout]

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 15th 2021 at 4:41:27 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#137119: Nov 15th 2021 at 2:55:59 PM

I actually did consider that he just genuinely thought he could beat it. The thing with Disney screwing him if they learned the truth is interesting, but also makes sense.

I firmly believe that it was probably COVID and all the lockdowns that upset things. He probably wasn't able to go for a treatment when he needed to due to how chaotic things got because of it.

One Strip! One Strip!
jdeo1997 BLADE Pathfinders from Orion–Cygnus Arm Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
BLADE Pathfinders
#137120: Nov 15th 2021 at 3:11:42 PM

Wonder if part of the unwillingness to recast T'challa is due to, essentially, Sunk Cost Fallacy. The MCU has had recasts before (notably, replacing Terrance Howard with Don Cheadle from Iron Man 2 onward and Edward Norton with Mark Ruffalo from Avengers onward), but both of those happened not just early on in the MCU (being all Phase 1), but with the character's second appearance and thus they only had one appearance before getting replaced. Meanwhile, Chadwick was Black Panther in 4 movies (One of which he was a major player, the other being his starring role in the MCU) plus What If. At this point, unlike Howard with Rhodey or Norton with Banner, Chadwick would be pretty highly associated with the MCU's T'challa, making any recast potentially run into issues with the audience not wanting some new guy as T'challa, but Chadwick as T'Challa like they had since Civil War.

Could also play a part with being unwilling to recast other characters due to the actors... actions, as by this point if they've been around long enough they might be too ingrained in the audience's minds to change

Edited by jdeo1997 on Nov 15th 2021 at 6:14:21 AM

Attachments are not the problem, Indifference is. Keelah se'lai
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#137121: Nov 15th 2021 at 3:17:02 PM

It's been suggested in this thread that it's Marvel being well-meaning but tone-deaf. A key difference between Edward Norton and Terrence Howard versus Chadwick Boseman is that Boseman isn't being replaced due to some behind-the-scenes issue or another. He fucking died, and it happened suddenly and shockingly, and everyone's trying to figure out how to react.

It's entirely likely that Marvel believes they're being respectful to the man by retiring his character. That's an easy thing to believe, because real people matter more than fake people.

But what Marvel doesn't seem to realize is that, by doing so, they are actually dishonoring Boseman's body of work. Boseman dedicated his career to uplifting black actors. He wouldn't want his character retired. He would want another promising young black person to be given a chance to stand in his spotlight.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 15th 2021 at 3:17:59 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#137122: Nov 15th 2021 at 3:21:09 PM

That's fair enough.

It'd be easier if we knew what Boseman himself would have wanted in the event of his death.

One Strip! One Strip!
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#137123: Nov 15th 2021 at 3:23:47 PM

Frankly, speculating on the morals of Marvel's decision and what Boseman would have wanted because we like a character is bordering on tasteless.

In absence of the latter, the best we can do is respect the wishes of the people who are actually involved in production.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 15th 2021 at 5:24:05 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#137124: Nov 15th 2021 at 3:23:54 PM

[up][up][up] Agreed. I also think that Kevin Feige might just be reluctant to recast a black actor again. The last time it happened, it was because Ike Perlmutter was being blatantly racist.

But yeah, I think I'm starting to see the side of recasting a bit more. I understand why Ryan Coogler, Nate Moore and the other heads at Marvel are against it, but I think their decision is going to cause more harm than good going forward. But we'll have to see what happens.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Nov 15th 2021 at 3:48:32 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#137125: Nov 15th 2021 at 3:28:05 PM

Once again all a damn shame.

There ain't anyone like T'Challa, just like Steve Rogers or Bruce Wayne.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 15th 2021 at 3:28:34 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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