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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#136626: Nov 4th 2021 at 10:26:27 AM

necromancers don't need a body when they can summon the dead soul from anywhere,though they do need a host..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#136628: Nov 4th 2021 at 10:28:41 AM

With them emphasizing that the TV shows are going to actually be essential viewing this time around and Marvel outright saying that the next place we were going to see Wanda was a movie called Multiverse of Madness, casting Evan Peters as Quicksilver was only ever going to get people suspecting.

See, I don't really think "they used Multiverse in the title of one of their movies, so they should've known people would place expectations that literally every project they made regardless of whether it's actually that movie itself would be about specifically reintroducing things from old movie series" tracks as a reason its their fault, especially given how much of a conclusion jump that was in the first place.

The big thing I perceive as something they're not doing right, specifically, the lack of information about what these upcoming projects are - or, specifically, what these projects are not. Not because the backlash is their fault, but because they're letting the backlash fester when they could just be shutting that shit down. The thing that one of Loki's showrunners did, where they said "no, this isn't Mephisto, shut up" after the very first episode to head the mob off at the pass is something they should do more.

But the people who makes these things don't want to have to do that. They like to let people speculate: it's part of the hype and enjoyment. It's not their fault speculation is becoming something entitled and negative these days: this whole wave of "I have this huge, elaborate theory about this movie/show, and if this theory turns out to be wrong I will incite a mob to hate it forever" in fans is new and kind of unsettling (the first time I ever saw it was with The Last Jedi, which was only a couple years ago).

The whole idea of not having one's theories be satisfied be seen as a "legitimate" reason to criticize a film is popular now in pop culture whereas the expectation is people will not mind being being wrong in speculation and enjoy things for what they are, and while by now I think they should be aware it exists in fanbases right now it's also not unreasonable that they just don't always know when fanbases will react in such an extreme way.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 4th 2021 at 10:41:23 AM

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136629: Nov 4th 2021 at 10:29:31 AM

This movie (Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness) seems like it's shaping up to be a disappointment and not for the best reasons.

I mean, the "leaks" on Reddit make it sound like the movie's going to horribly butcher Wanda, Strange, and Mordo; with Wanda being character-assassinated a la Daenerys, Strange completely sidelined in favor of fanservice cameos, and Mordo being practically nonexistent. They read like "bad fanfiction being passed off as a leak", something reinforced by the fact that all of them seem to have a lot of details about Wanda but almost nothing about Strange.

The way I see it, I think we're going to actually get a movie where it's Strange, Wanda, Wong and Chavez as a "Sorcerer Quartet" who are up against Mordo, who's been carrying out his crusade to rid the world of sorcerers. Mordo makes a great villain for the former two given his connection to Kamar-Taj, and for Wanda given he's essentially another Agatha for her.

It has a lot of expectations put on it that don't have much basis in fact or even to do with how the movie is going to work as a story and even if it's a acceptable enough movie, those thwarted expectations are probably going to lead to some sort of backlash.

This is also true of No Way Home given the amount of leaks and rumormongering from that camp.

Okey Dokey!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136630: Nov 4th 2021 at 11:07:11 AM

I think another problem with Multiverse of Madness is that we can't really tell who or what is going to be in the film, and how they might be involved with it if they're in it. Mostly because every time something multiverse-related comes up in a new show/movie, it opens buckets of worms we have to make sense of.

Like, we know for sure that Doctor Strange, Wong, Scarlet Witch and Karl Mordo are going to be involved is going to play a big part in Multiverse of Madness. If we take WandaVision into account, it's possible Wanda's kids get involved as well. And it's been heavily hinted that the events of Loki also play some role in the story, and we already know that Kang was introduced in that show who will be the main antagonist of Quantumania. So does that mean Ant-Man and the Wasp are connected to this film somehow? Or what about the Time Variance Authority? If Michael Waldron is a screenwriter on Mo M, that could literally mean anything.

And then there's Strange's involvement in No Way Home which in it of itself is a huge multiversal Crisis Crossover that involves alternate film continuities. And since Peter is confirmed for one more ensemble film after NWH, does that give him a chance to appear?

While I understand most of these ideas I've mentioned are indicative of many invested fans' straw-grasping desperation for answers that they have to wait months to get, but that's the point I'm trying to make. Cryptic announcements, combined with long wait-times, a lack of information and desperate fans hunting for any information they can find just becomes incredibly overwhelming to think about. It just seems like there's all these threads that all lead towards Multiverse of Madness, and people really want to get there as soon as possible.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136631: Nov 4th 2021 at 11:42:20 AM

Cryptic announcements, combined with long wait-times, a lack of information and desperate fans hunting for any information they can find just becomes incredibly overwhelming to think about. It just seems like there's all these threads that all lead towards Multiverse of Madness, and people really want to get there as soon as possible.

It's to the point that the rumors about who's showing up in what read more like people throwing literally every guess they can at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Okey Dokey!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#136632: Nov 4th 2021 at 11:48:06 AM

They're convinced Mephisto is involved,somewhere as someone.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136633: Nov 4th 2021 at 12:35:17 PM

The rumors about Wanda being a villain are almost certainly false, considering leaked art like this depicting her with Strange, Wong, and Chavez. This is Wanda being promoted alongside protagonist characters, and without any of the visual motifs used to advertise a villain. So at worst, she's probably a minor antagonist turned ally, who turns very early in the movie.

Okey Dokey!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136634: Nov 4th 2021 at 1:13:23 PM

I don't know why but its a thing that always makes me think about it, both Drax and Gamora are green-skinned aliens whose powerset revolves around enhanced physical abilities and bladed weapons.

Its weird how they intersect a lot of traits with each other, they both can basically do everything the other can. I guess its like how The Suicide Squad commented on how similar Bloodsport and Peacemaker are in their abilities.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136635: Nov 4th 2021 at 1:18:08 PM

[up] Maybe that's why Gamora and Drax used to be Headbutting Heroes in the first Guardians movie before never really developing their relationship further in future movies.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#136636: Nov 4th 2021 at 1:18:48 PM

Gael Garcia Bernal will be Werewolf by Night.

MEXICAN WEREWOLF TIME, YES.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#136638: Nov 4th 2021 at 2:01:56 PM

QUE?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#136639: Nov 4th 2021 at 2:02:37 PM

Donde esta la biblioteca?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#136641: Nov 4th 2021 at 2:12:08 PM

Had to look up Gael García Bernal's filmography, it's both unfortunate but probably expected that I, an American, only really know him from Coco.

Still, it wound up giving me a thought: between that and Encanto Disney's probably made quite a few inroads with seeking Latino talent. Leaves me hopeful that Marvel could increasingly take advantage of that.

Edited by Watchtower on Nov 4th 2021 at 5:12:25 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#136642: Nov 4th 2021 at 2:23:46 PM

The rumors about Wanda being a villain are almost certainly false, considering leaked art like this depicting her with Strange, Wong, and Chavez. This is Wanda being promoted alongside protagonist characters, and without any of the visual motifs used to advertise a villain.

While I don't believe she is going to be a villain either, it is arguably worth pointing out that she's in "villain position" in that art.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#136643: Nov 4th 2021 at 3:22:00 PM

Had to look up Gael García Bernal's filmography, it's both unfortunate but probably expected that I, an American, only really know him from Coco.

He played Che Guevara in a movie based off his motorcycle diaries, so that's one big thing he's famous for. That and being buddies with Diego Luna.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136644: Nov 4th 2021 at 3:22:53 PM

@Matthew Wayne Its a weird redundancy.

Both character's are functionally identical. Sure they have different personalities but its odd in a way.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#136645: Nov 4th 2021 at 6:39:51 PM

Ngl, I'm disappointed that the first two latino-lead projects from MCU (this one and Moon Knight) are from characters who aren't latinos in the actual comics.

EDIT: Okay, I just remembered that there is a latino werewolf character from Marvel: Martin Reyna aka Warwolf. He is the second in command of the supernatural version of the Howling Commandos, a team composed of monsters (like Man-Thing, Hit-Monkey, and the Living Mummy) who are under the SHIELD sub-division of STAKE. Consideirng this is simply called "werewolf project", could it be that this might be a Howling Commandos project and the lead is Warwolf and not Werewolf by Night?

Edited by Akirakan on Nov 4th 2021 at 8:53:59 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#136646: Nov 4th 2021 at 6:53:50 PM

Well, the second Werewolf By Night (Jake Gomez) is Latino in the comics. People are presuming he's the basis here, though he's a very recent arrival (debuted in October of 2020).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#136647: Nov 4th 2021 at 6:57:47 PM

Well, it could be, but the character is a teen character (GGB is in his 40's), and one of the things that they emphasize with him is his native heritage. It does not look good casting a very white looking mexican to play a very indigenous latino.

In any case, I already edited my previous post and suggested the possibility of the character being Warwolf, not Werewolf by Night.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136648: Nov 4th 2021 at 7:11:06 PM

Well Sam Alexander Nova is Latino I think but as said before he's not really popular especially compared to Richard Rider.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136649: Nov 4th 2021 at 7:14:15 PM

Jake Gomez is actually Indigenous American — he lives on a Hopi reservation.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#136650: Nov 4th 2021 at 8:51:35 PM

Hmm, if it's true that Bernal is supposed to be playing Jake Gomez specifically, then while I don't think we have an outright page or research into it, some folks have noticed a tendency for US Native American characters to be played by Mexican or Latin actors, who may be mestize enough to technically fulfill the Native heritage quota, but who have very little connection to whatever indigenous heritage they do have. I'm not super informed on Bernal's heritage or family history and sense of self-identification, but for what it's worth it does seem like he does have a history of working with natives, if not necessarily being one of them.

Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 4th 2021 at 11:52:48 AM


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