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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
The problem with MCU Ultron is his total lack of development. He references 616 Ultron rather than being an adaptation of him.
Ultron hates Tony. He flips out on Klau for stating correctly that he's a Stark design and Vision assures Tony that Ultron despises him more than any other Avenger. Ultron has an undercooked Oedipus Complex that goes entirely unexplored. Why? Because he's supposed to have one. No other reason.
His motives jump around a lot. He was created to achieve peace, which he's decided can only be done by destroying the Avengers. For some reason. And he's going to do that by exterminating humanity. Which he wants because he's fascinated by evolution and something something humans are evolutionarily stagnant. But also he wants to become human all of a sudden.
It's all just gibberish so that he can do whatever he's supposed to do for the plot to happen. Ultron is not a dynamic character, but instead makes choices and has opinions based strictly on his role in the story as both villain and a rendition of the Ultron character.
Also the film features implications that Loki's scepter made him and that's why he malfunctioned like this, but this is never actually explored in any capacity. The film is wholly uninterested in who Ultron is or why any of this is happening.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 3rd 2021 at 6:00:22 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
I would argue that Ultron having inconsistent goals and irrational decisions that frequently contradict what he supposedly believes in makes sense, given he's supposed to be a malfunctioning, but scarily competent A.I. And from that perspective, it's kind of interesting to watch Ultron do what he does.
But I do agree that overall, the character was wasted. He's literally just a generic Phase 1-2 villain disguised as an interesting Phase 3 villain that will never get any sort of development ever again discounting What If. Now I'm not quite as bothered by all of the quips he makes, but I can see why that would turn people off.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."That isn't a very good reason for it, though. If he's malfunctioning and insane, that should be the plot point, but the movie doesn't really act that way. The movie doesn't treat Ultron as though he's inconsistent in-universe (the closest we get is that one line of "he doesn't know the difference between saving and destroying" line which isn't ever really explored). He's just written inconsistently, which makes "well, he's malfunctioning" more of a handwave than anything.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 3rd 2021 at 9:08:46 AM
I don't know if I'd say Ultron was that inconsistent, tbh. He determines almost immediately that Humans Are Bastards and are to him the biggest threat to world peace, and from the beginning his end-goal is always some kind of mass extinction event as a form of biblical cleansing. With Wanda and Pietro he sees kindred spirits that he legitimately believes will help him all the way through and wanted to spare, but as soon as they betrayed him he just said fuck it and went through with dropping Sokovia. The one kinda throwaway is him having "I'm not my daddy" issues because he's Ultron and of course he does.
It comes across to the issue that Ultron as a character is supposed to be a very personal threat between him and his creator yet said rivalry winds up very under baked because they never went to the same degree of horrible obsession and shame Hank has with Tony, it’s under baked to the extreme lacking any sort of interesting complexity or pathos.
Plus disguising his flip-flopping of master plans with cool “I like the Bible” stylings.
Edited by slimcoder on Nov 3rd 2021 at 10:10:08 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I'm reminded of this article a month ago that delved into Ultron's character, how the movie didn't get it right at portraying him, and how the graphic novel Rage of Ultron released around at the same time the movie came out did a better job of understanding the character.
Pretty good stuff here especially the comparison to Frankenstein or comparing Ultron relationship with his father to a parent who discovers their kid is a shooter.
https://www.ign.com/articles/rage-of-ultron-what-if-marvel-true-origins-avengers-villain
Remender writes Ultron much like Shelley’s Adam: determined to avenge himself on a parent who would not love him. The comic even rewrites Ultron’s birth and the original falling out with Hank. In a flashback from Avengers #58, Ultron tried to kill Hank seconds after being born for no reason at all. In Rage’s version, however, Hank - convinced by the robot’s cold cynicism that he made a mistake with its programming - tries to destroy Ultron first. Ultron resents his father for this and it’s why, even in his general misanthropy, he reserves a special hatred for Hank Pym. By making Ultron’s legacy of violence the fault of not just the android himself, but Hank as well, the comic in turn explores Hank’s own simmering resentments and how those bled into his creation - with Hank as his creator, Ultron’s rage was predestined.
While coated with superhero pomp and spectacle, Rage of Ultron is at its core a somber story about the blend of love and resentment which fills the relationship between a parent and their child. Indeed, it has less in common with any MCU movie, and more with Lynne Ramsay’s We Need to Talk About Kevin. In Rage, Hank assumes the role filled by Tilda Swinton’s character Eva Khatchadourian: a parent wrestling with having brought a monster into the world. In turn, both stories ask if a parent’s love is truly unconditional - if someone can love a being determined only to hate.
This begins with the cover of the book. Ultron’s visage casts a shadow which engulfs all the Avengers, but it’s Hank whose image aligns with, and is dwarfed by, Ultron. The meaning of this composition is two-fold. For one, Ultron and his father are the same - two manifestations of the same being, with only one unburdened by humanity. Second, Ultron is the shadow which Hank will forever cast. The achievement for which he’ll be remembered is not one of his scientific or superheroic feats, but having created his own greatest enemy.
Time for discourse. I thought this thread might appreciate, or at least give some thought to, some of the points here because we've been harping on about how everything now must be setting up something huge, which leads to annoying rumors and entitled fans.
It’s Time to Stop Making Post-Credits Scenes
. (Note: That leaked Eternals casting is in the byline.)
[...] If you've found yourself in the catacombs of Reddit or You Tube lately, you'll know that the culture created by the post-credits scene—one where we're obsessed with reveals and Easter eggs and fan theories—has fundamentally changed how we view blockbuster movies. The culprits include nearly every blockbuster franchise, including Star Wars, DC, and Marvel, of course. Take the upcoming Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, for example, which by many accounts will be Marvel's biggest event since Avengers: Endgame. You can't click a stray Reddit hyperlink without ramming into a sketchy-looking, computer-generated, alleged leak of concept art from the film. (Which, by the way, is probably, most definitely, fake.) Take a look and ask yourself: What are we doing here? Creating our own post-credits-esque moments in souped-up Photoshops?
[...]
We're at the point where superhero movies are telling us that the next sequel or spinoff is more important than the film you're watching the trailer for.
[...]
Even Marvel boss Kevin Feige recently tipped his hat to the culture he created. “The danger is when you get into the expectations game of wanting people to be excited about the movie they get, and not disappointed about a movie they don’t get,” he said of Spider-Man: No Way Home.
Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 3rd 2021 at 4:55:43 AM
I recall Film Crit Hulk saying that he was annoyed by the post-credit scenes in WandaVision and Loki because they contained vital information actually important to the plot of the next episodes but were placed somewhere where the audience might easily miss them, especially if they’ve been conditioned by previous episode credits to expect nothing there.
I like when stingers aren’t a teaser so much as one last joke or something
Like the Iron Man 3 stinger which revealed that the whole time Tony had been telling his story to Bruce, who had dozed off at the very beginning. Prompting Tony to start the story all over again but even further back out of spite
Good stuff
Forever liveblogging the Avengers![]()
Funnily enough, I always they should have used that to segue into them discussing Ultron.
That was indeed one of my favorite jokes from that movie.
Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Nov 3rd 2021 at 6:51:56 AM
Oh God! Natural light!The article is a valid criticism aimed at the wrong target. The problem isn't post-credit scenes, it's the fanbase whipping itself into a frenzy over theorycrafting and Easter egg hunts. They want to be teased more, and for the teasing to be part of the movie's DNA.
Like, say what you will about the the MoM "leaks", but the article's completely mischaracterizing the whole point. The allure isn't in the idea that it's the last 60 seconds after the credits, it's that it's 5 to 10 minutes within the first 30. Similarly, most of the Eternals chatter revolving around the post-credit scenes is less people having no care for these things beyond setup for the next ones and more people gripping at straws because the movie unfortunately didn't interest them otherwise.
Edited by Watchtower on Nov 3rd 2021 at 8:58:07 AM
That sounds exactly like what happened when WandaVision's big twist turned out to be that it was a story about Wanda (gasp) and not a vehicle for introducing the X-Men or Mephisto or the multiverse.
Okey Dokey!

He needs a memory wipe according to the Star Wars treatment of droids
Edited by Ultimatum on Nov 3rd 2021 at 11:42:20 AM
have a listen and have a link to my discord server