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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#136551: Nov 2nd 2021 at 7:48:24 PM

I definitely liked Age of Ultron more than expected the last time I rewatched it. Definitely has quite a few flaws, but it was enjoyable overall. Still my least favorite Avengers movie, but not by a massive margin.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136552: Nov 2nd 2021 at 7:56:39 PM

[up] While I do think the movie is still fun and entertaining, I feel like the film isn't quite as investing, even compared to the first Avengers. I also felt like character focus was all over the place, to the point where I didn't really feel strongly about any of the main characters.

I get that in Avengers movies there isn't a main character, but I felt like there was a little bit more focus on at least two or three characters in the first Avengers, Infinity War and Endgame. Here, I can't really tell who I should be paying attention to.

I will say I thought the film was awesome when I first saw it in theaters, but coming back now, I can see a lot of the problems that plagued it.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Nov 2nd 2021 at 7:57:29 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136553: Nov 2nd 2021 at 8:33:53 PM

Across all of the Avengers films, Tony was the most prominent one in the first two (especially Age of Ultron since Tony created Ultron), Thanos in Infinity War, a roughly even split for the Big Three (Tony, Thor, Steve) for Endgame.

Okey Dokey!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136554: Nov 2nd 2021 at 9:39:05 PM

Tony really is the Batman of Marvel.

He tends to get too much focus and connection to stuff at the expense of other characters.

Famous cases being turned into Ultron's creator and his stranglehold on the Spider-Man movies.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#136555: Nov 2nd 2021 at 9:43:22 PM

Remember when the four biggest comic-book characters were Batman and Superman from DC and Spider-Man and Hulk from Marvel?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#136556: Nov 2nd 2021 at 9:47:53 PM

Tony in the comics just has one book, like a polite person. The X-Men and Spider-Man are the real Batmens of print, releasing as many and more books than the market can handle.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136557: Nov 2nd 2021 at 9:52:18 PM

Its a weird thing.

Spider-Man has a lot of books but he kinda just stays in his own corner, not really uprooting anyone else's stuff. Its like how during Dark Reign Norman Osborn basically became the biggest threat in America and Spider-Man was barely involved. Instead Luke Cage and Jessica Jones are the ones who primarily brought Osborn's fall from grace. Not very Batman who tends to make it all about him.

But in the movies Iron Man just has this far reaching grasp on a lot of stuff like a virus, absorbing shit into himself to make it all about him exactly like Batman. Like how the future Flash movie is more of a Batman film than a Flash film.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 2nd 2021 at 9:53:05 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#136558: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:09:44 PM

Are we counting symbiote stuff as Spider-adjacent? Because we are several yearly symbiote events in and I'm exhausted.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136559: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:14:25 PM

Huh...... I'm honestly not sure there.

Would you count the Loki series as Thor adjacent even though Thor has no involvement in that show?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#136560: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:31:26 PM

Tony really is the Batman of Marvel.

He tends to get too much focus and connection to stuff at the expense of other characters.

Famous cases being turned into Ultron's creator and his stranglehold on the Spider-Man movies.

The Ultron thing was due to issues with Ant-Man's debut in the MCU being delayed. He's barely in the Homecoming and is completely absent in Far From Home.

Remember when the four biggest comic-book characters were Batman and Superman from DC and Spider-Man and Hulk from Marvel?

Sure you don't mean Spider-Man and the X-Men? I doubt the Hulk was ever as big as Spider-Man, let alone Batman and Superman. Hell, for a time, you could even say Blade was bigger than the Hulk.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#136561: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:35:52 PM

I honestly don't mind Stark creating Ultron at all. Makes a lot more sense for him, with his focus on robotics and AI, than Hank Pym being an Omnidisciplinary Scientist.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#136562: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:35:56 PM

Sure you don't mean Spider-Man and the X-Men? I doubt the Hulk was ever as big as Spider-Man, let alone Batman and Superman. Hell, for a time, you could even say Blade was bigger than the Hulk.

Hulk *the character* was popular in the mainstream but it wasn't like his supporting cast or rogues gallery were all that well-known in the mainstream compared to, say, Spider-Man's. It didn't help that the most popular Hulk media wasn't within the movies, but the TV series starring Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno, which isn't the most faithful adaptation (though certainly not in-name only, to its credit). A lot of the big comic book stuff like in Peter David's run was captured in the Ang Lee Hulk, which was...not the most well-received adaptation.

The X-Men were definitely more popular by contrast.

Edited by Diana1969 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 4:37:14 AM

Watchtower Since: Jul, 2010
#136563: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:40:27 PM

The X-Men are in this unfortunately obnoxious spot where, thanks to the Fox ban, they're simultaneously still the Goliath they were back in the 90s and now the David scrapping against the new Goliath that is the MCU. Like, Marvel hasn't milked X-Men nearly as hard as DC's milked Batman but good Lord do people really really want them to.

Marvel gaming is full of people straining over whether or not a game is "too MCU", which both means increasingly little and is blatantly code for "does this game have X-Men in it" and it grinds my gears every time I see it.

Edited by Watchtower on Nov 2nd 2021 at 1:41:19 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136564: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:51:44 PM

[up][up][up] That is true but it also means that Tony doesn't have the same relationship that Hank has with Ultron. He doesn't really care that much about Ultron's creation and not much emphasis is placed on him being a twisted reflection of his creator.

He ended up making Ultron a worse character and Oedipus Complex dynamic that defines the mad robot has been lost.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:52:23 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136565: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:53:36 PM

One could also argue that comics Hank Pym not being a dedicated robotics and software engineer is in part why Ultron went off the rails right after being activated.

Edited by M84 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 1:59:06 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#136566: Nov 2nd 2021 at 10:56:19 PM

That part of the relationship existed on Ultron's side in AOU. Although mainly I can just think of when he flipped out on Klau for comparing him to Tony.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136567: Nov 2nd 2021 at 11:04:49 PM

MCU Ultron basically wants to out-Tony Tony Stark. He wants to prove himself superior to his creator.

Comics Ultron seems to have settled into being Hank Pym's Shadow Archetype, defining himself as the embodiment of Hank Pym's own resentment of other people. Ultron also insists that the fact Ultron embraces it rather than suppresses it the way Hank does makes Ultron the real Hank Pym.

Edited by M84 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 2:04:58 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#136568: Nov 2nd 2021 at 11:06:01 PM

So that's why he was so keen on having Hank's skin.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136569: Nov 2nd 2021 at 11:07:13 PM

Ultron was originally created with a copy of Hank Pym's own mind. He was in a way Hank Pym's mental clone.

Ultron seems to waffle between wanting to kill Hank Pym, wanting to be Hank Pym, or wanting Hank Pym to acknowledge him as his son.

Edited by M84 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 2:08:43 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136570: Nov 2nd 2021 at 11:08:35 PM

Was Ultron even mentioned in Civil War?

Like that mom who grilled Tony over her son dying, how that go?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#136571: Nov 2nd 2021 at 11:15:42 PM

He definitely wanted Hank's wife various times.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136572: Nov 3rd 2021 at 12:14:52 AM

I guess we should just be glad MCU Ultron didn't try to hit on Pepper.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136573: Nov 3rd 2021 at 12:16:50 AM

Really with how batshit insane Ultron is, its rather disappointing the movie turned him into just a generic authoritarian robot.

With the only crazy thing about him is being obsessed with making quips and jokes like everyone else in the movie.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#136574: Nov 3rd 2021 at 2:36:30 AM

Ultron has a lot of goddamn issues. He needs to go to therapy.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136575: Nov 3rd 2021 at 2:42:23 AM

The problem is that he has his creator's issues (whoever that is) but has none of the outlets or distractions that his creator has to cope with said issues.

Ultron was "born" with all of the inner demons but lacked the actual experience Hank or Tony had living with said inner demons.

Edited by M84 on Nov 3rd 2021 at 5:42:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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