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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136376: Oct 28th 2021 at 5:09:25 PM

[up] She also seemed pretty dismissive of HYDRA, so her joining up with a different ambiguous organization run by a person with an agenda would be kinda strange to me.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136377: Oct 28th 2021 at 5:11:55 PM

Granted the Thunderbolts have had magical members.

They had Satana daughter of Satan, Man-Thing, and Troll who is an Asgardian with a Troll father.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136378: Oct 28th 2021 at 5:14:17 PM

Oh, I didn't know that. Interesting. Might give me other ideas about who could join that group.

Though I still don't think someone like Agatha would join.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#136379: Oct 28th 2021 at 5:18:00 PM

They have to figure out how to control her, and that would probably be quite a task.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136380: Oct 28th 2021 at 5:27:11 PM

We do have a good mix of returning characters plus a couple new ones for a Thunderbolts team.

I fully expect Songbird to be brought in since she's a Thunderbolts mainstay.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 28th 2021 at 5:27:22 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136381: Oct 28th 2021 at 5:28:24 PM

If anything, Agatha would be the one controlling them...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#136382: Oct 28th 2021 at 6:23:18 PM

Also, Wanda would have to bring Agatha out of, ahem, "retirement" before she can do anything for the Thunderbolts other than share casserole recipes.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136383: Oct 28th 2021 at 6:25:26 PM

[up] If the announcement of her own show is any indication, it seems that Agatha being freed from her spell might become an inevitability now...

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#136384: Oct 28th 2021 at 6:55:51 PM

I think officially the Agatha show is simply "in the works" and hasn't been formally announced. It was reported by Variety, so it's almost certainly actually a thing that's being worked on. However plenty of projects sputter out after being worked on for a time, so we can't take it as an absolute guarantee just yet.

All that being said, I do think it's very likely that either Wanda will eventually decide she needs Agatha for something, or Agatha ends up breaking out of the spell on her own.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136385: Oct 28th 2021 at 7:02:30 PM

I wonder what Doctor Strange would think of Agatha. Seems like there would be a lot of fun Snark-to-Snark Combat to be had in a battle between them...

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 28th 2021 at 7:02:38 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136386: Oct 28th 2021 at 7:04:18 PM

People like Agatha would make Stephen think that maybe Mordo has a point.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136387: Oct 28th 2021 at 7:05:39 PM

Eh there's always gonna be psycopaths out there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#136388: Oct 28th 2021 at 7:41:58 PM

Weirdly Mordo and her make a Venn diagram

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#136389: Oct 28th 2021 at 7:54:34 PM

MCU Agatha is weird morality-wise. Her backstory paints her as a standard power-hungry psycho mage type, but her actions in the present paint her as something more akin to a Serial-Killer Killer - like Dexter for witches. She goes after Wanda because Wanda is A) extremely powerful and B) has exposed herself / made herself dangerous to others, which appears to make her fair game in Agatha's eyes.

Mordo and the Agatha we see in Wandavision may or may not get along, given that as of the end of Dr. Strange Mordo is doing more or less the same thing.

But if she's getting her own series, it might be safe to say she's going to morph into something more akin to comics Agatha over time as well.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 28th 2021 at 7:55:33 AM

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136390: Oct 28th 2021 at 8:10:36 PM

I doubt Agatha is showing up in Multiverse of Madness due to how crowded that film is already. But if part of the plot really does involve Karl Mordo setting his sights on Wanda, it would be cool if he freed Agatha as a temporary means to an end when it comes to defeating the Scarlet Witch.

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#136391: Oct 28th 2021 at 8:20:07 PM

I think Agatha is a pretty solid Chaotic Neutral character in a franchise that doesn't have many morally gray characters.

The legend has returned.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136392: Oct 28th 2021 at 8:22:11 PM

She's a bit too sadistic and petty to be Neutral. Killing a dog and gloating about it makes her a little Evil at least.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#136393: Oct 28th 2021 at 8:25:32 PM

On the flipside, it does kind of feel like they specifically added that line about killing the dog offscreen so that the audience had a reason to see fully her as the villain, given that... yeah... in action she's a pretty blunt neutral.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 28th 2021 at 8:25:45 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136394: Oct 28th 2021 at 8:35:39 PM

I have seen people say she didn't actually do anything wrong, especially to warrant what Wanda did to her.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#136395: Oct 28th 2021 at 9:04:50 PM

Agatha is funny in that her intentions are very much Not Good but her actions in Wanda Vision are... much more solidly neutral.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#136396: Oct 28th 2021 at 9:21:03 PM

I doubt Agatha is showing up in Multiverse of Madness due to how crowded that film is already.

I mean, at least half to three quarters of the rumored cameos from that film are probably not gonna turn out to happen. But that's another topic.

But if part of the plot really does involve Karl Mordo setting his sights on Wanda, it would be cool if he freed Agatha as a temporary means to an end when it comes to defeating the Scarlet Witch.

I really want to know whether Strange or Wong have even spoken to Mordo since defeating the Cult of Dormammu. Because Mordo's been on his crusade for the last three or eight years (depending on whether or not he was dusted).

Edited by dmcreif on Oct 28th 2021 at 12:22:00 PM

Okey Dokey!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#136397: Oct 28th 2021 at 9:26:31 PM

You'd think Strange would check in on Pangborn at some point.

But also not doing that seems right up his alley too.

MatthewWayne The Tapestry Weaver from Camp Echo One Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Tapestry Weaver
#136398: Oct 28th 2021 at 10:20:44 PM

[up][up] No doubt that Mordo would not be happy with Strange's Thanatos Gambit in regards to stopping Thanos.

[up] Poor Pangborn. It's a shame, I really like Benjamin Bratt, and I kinda wish he was given a bigger role. He's a great actor.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 28th 2021 at 10:21:54 AM

"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#136399: Oct 28th 2021 at 10:34:27 PM

Holy shit the Thunderbolts once had a Hyperion as a member. Fuck thats a Superman xpy. Like he prolly won't show up here but damn thats a high power celing.

Also keep in mind I said a Hyperion. There's like 3 or 4 alternate versions of the same guy with identical powers living in the Marvel Universe.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#136400: Oct 28th 2021 at 10:37:50 PM

Hyperion basically shows just how powerful a Superman expy can be when they don't have mitigating psychological weaknesses to hold them back like the other Superman expies Marvel has, the Sentry (massive social anxiety and fear of responsibility on top of a Superpowered Evil Side) and Gladiator (power fueled entirely by self-confidence meaning failure leads to a downward spiral).

When Taskmaster had the bad luck of facing a Hyperion, his jumbled inner monologue while Hyperion was beating him black and blue outright called Hyperion "God". It was only very careful planning and luck that allowed Taskmaster to gain the upper hand, and he still suffered a lot of injuries for his Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu? moment.

Edited by M84 on Oct 29th 2021 at 1:39:30 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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