Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
If I'm willing to look on the side of optimism here, all the Spider-Man superfans who have been following every live-action film featuring the character will be familiar with every single villain that will reappear in this film thus far, so we might not need as much of an introduction for each character like we did before. I also worry that it still might be too much, but with all the villains' backstories and exposition explained in other realities, we might have more time to see them do cool shit.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."Spider-Man 3 didn't really have a "too many villains" problem so much as a "too many villain arcs" problem.
Venom, Sand Man, and the Green Goblin all had different stories with different motivations whose only real connection is that they coincidentally happened at roughly the same time.
With NWH, I think a big part of the issue is resolved by all the villains having effectively the same backstory: They are a representation of all the crazy stuff found throughout the multiverse, with a significant lean towards people who have fought different versions of Peter Parker.
Basically this. The problem isn't too many villains, it's too many plotlines. Sandman, Goblin Jr, and Venom are all the "main" villain at different points of SM3, basically fighting each other for dominance. And while ASM2 cuts down on the villains (or at least recognizes that Rhino is a Joke Character) it overloads on all the Osborn Peter's dad bullshit.
The Russos' MCU filmography is one where they increasingly overload each consecutive movie with more characters but it never feels overstuffed because the story knows how to weave them all to one plotline and who's more important than who. NWH under Marvel Studios's eye should be able to do just fine.
Edited by Watchtower on Oct 27th 2021 at 10:09:07 AM
Having a boatload of villains in No Way Home can work... if they're mostly just there for glorified cameos or a couple fight scenes, instead of each having their own arc.
I could see maybe a plot where instead of having a central villain, the main "antagonist" is just the fucked up reality Peter needs to fix, with the assorted timeline villains basically being more akin to nuisances or obstacles he has to contend with along the way. Like a bunch of minions without a leader, at least in terms of narrative importance.
Come to think of it, the MCU hasn't actually done that yet, has it? Have the central threat be a dangerous environment, object, or other non-sentient force. It's always been a human or humanlike entity driving the plot and serving as the ultimate physical threat in the end. The closest I can think of is Civil War's "real" villain being the concept of the Avengers splitting up, but even then it still manifests itself as Baron Zemo and then Tony Stark.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I would say that worked great on Captain America: The Winter Soldier, but they stumbled a bit with Captain America: Civil War. Civil War would've honestly had more room to breathe as a five hour miniseries than as a movie. Because while the finished product did try and focus on Captain America and his relationship with Bucky, events and cameos outside that kind of took over the movie at times to the point that it felt like the movie was fighting with Steve, Tony, Zemo, T'Challa, and Bucky, etc. all vying for screen time and focus. It was definitely a juggling act to keep the movie focused on Steve with almost everyone else in the Terran-based sector of the MCU sharing the screen with him. Infinity War and Endgame were much more streamlined (the former relying heavily on cast herding for the heroes while having Thanos as a Villain Protagonist, and the latter having a lot of the big players tucked away until the final battle).
I feel like WandaVision could be added to that list, since the Hex (Wanda's magic) was harming the people of Westview.
Edited by dmcreif on Oct 27th 2021 at 10:58:52 AM
Okey Dokey!Yeah, there's a loooot of people who like to dunk on that film for some reason.
Honestly, I feel like I like the Ant-Man movies because I kinda relate to Scott. Just being a guy who wants to do his own thing and just coincidentally gets swept up in a bigger picture. I like that.
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."Scott's honestly one of the best leads cause he's just such a good guy.
Just wants to live out his probation period, get back to work, and be with his family who all love him, but as said he keeps getting caught in Pym family bullshit and has to bail them out of their fuckups.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I kinda like that Scottt is just a Nice Guy helping people out with their problems and on the way helping himself. It's a nice change of pace from the other heroes who tend to have extremely personal (and often self-inflicted to varying degrees) problems. Scott's plots are mostly about helping others and that's that.
Edited by Gaon on Oct 27th 2021 at 8:52:45 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."I definitely don't hate Ant-Man and the Wasp, I was just kind of hoping for another heist film and the movie was... not really that. But it's still a very good sequel.
Although it's a minor thing but I do absolutely HATE the post-credits scenes. It's not even really for any rational reasons, because everything about it I can articulate, other MCU post-credits and endings are just as guilty of, but... ugh. Makes me mad every time.
Yeah, you can see why Scott would gravitate more towards the likes of Steve Rogers than Tony Stark. He's an entirely selfless and moral dude who does whatever he can without asking for much of anything in return. I'm really curious how he's going to bounce off of other heroes if he ends up in another ensemble film.
Honestly, I actually really liked the second credit scene. It perfectly encapsulated the horror of everything going to hell in a handbasket in regards to the aftermath of what Thanos did. The first one is good too, but that Emergency Broadcast System noise with the drumming ant...*shivers*
Edited by MatthewWayne on Oct 27th 2021 at 9:01:54 AM
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."I love the Ant-Man movies... it's just that as a huge fan of Hank Pym as a character, I'm annoyed that he never got to be the lead of his own movie and essentially sat out all the films for a team he was a founding member of.
And then of course this led to the comics trying to pretty much erase/demonize him because bRaNd SyNeRgY.
Edited by lbssb on Oct 27th 2021 at 9:05:44 AM
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonSame with Wasp too. Shame what happened to those 2.
Earth’s Mightiest Heroes is probably the best incarnation of Hank.
![]()
Poor guy is still dead. He got his soul eaten in the shitty Infinity Wars event after being forcibly merged with Ultron.
Edited by slimcoder on Oct 27th 2021 at 9:08:36 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."I think there's a reason why people want some sort of series that focused on S.H.I.E.L.D during the 60s, 70s and 80s. So that way we can see Hank and Janet in their prime, and see what the organization was like as HYDRA was infiltrating it. Maybe we get more Arnim Zola and Howard Stark too!
"I'm Mr. Blue, woah-woah-ooh..."![]()
![]()
Yeah, but it got especially bad after the movie (Pymtron, secret Russian daughter he's a deadbeat towards, had his soul fucking erased during Infinity Wars)
semi-
'd by slimcoder, but yeah, you get the idea.
Edited by lbssb on Oct 27th 2021 at 9:10:40 AM
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonMan Hope Van Dyne is such a weird attempt at synergy. She was obviously created to cash in on Hope Pym's but she's a completely different character from her movie counterpart.
Its kinda like how DC after the popularity of Kaldur in Young Justice they decided to implement him in the comic but as a rather different individual named Jackson Hyde.
Do you really count as a deadbeat if you had absolutely no idea the child ever existed? Its pretty mean to consider Hank a deadbeat for something he had no idea of.
Edited by slimcoder on Oct 27th 2021 at 9:13:49 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Every live-action non-MCU movie.